You are invited to share in the community of Presence with your thoughts, ideas, and experiences. The intention isn’t to develop concepts or learn anything new, but to go deeper into what we already know.
Quotes from Eckhart Tolle and random thoughts on EMDR & Nondual Wisdom
You are invited to share in the community of Presence with your thoughts, ideas, and experiences. The intention isn’t to develop concepts or learn anything new, but to go deeper into what we already know.
I agree. In the world of form and experience or in other words the life story, there will always be limitation and suffering. But I see a lot of unnecessary limitation and suffering as we identify with the form and experience. We think and feel we are our life story even though we are not. It’s a good idea to work on trying to improve the experience. Feeling thearpy, [and many other therapies], some types of yoga, eating right, exersize has been trying to improve the life experience for many years with some success. It is one of the things MB does. Now ET keeps saying there will always be limitation in form. I accept that with the exception that there are ways to improve the experience of the life story to some degree. I do believe it is important to deeply realize we are not the form, the experience or the life story. Once deeply realized,that you are not your life story there will be relief and less or no [unnecessary] suffering or limitation. Peace
Jordan,
I assume this reply goes directly to you. Is that correct?
I am missing something on the Nov 2 Daily Now discussion with NM.
The confusion is that NM seems to be asking the question “Did you investigate the connection”…..and”at what point are they connected?”{body/mind} He seems to be giving food for thought to the questioner.
The Questioner seems to be giving the reply “Between the body and the ‘indwelling consciousness lies the mind.”not NM. So we don’t know what NM thinks, do we?
Is that just a typo error?
Autumn
This is the quote:
Awareness of Being is Bliss
Q: I seek to cure the body as well as improve the link between the body and the mind. I also seek to set right the mind.
M: Did you investigate the connection between the mind and the body?
At what point are they connected?
Q: Between the body and the indwelling consciousness lies the mind.
END Quote
You’re right. We don’t know what NM thinks. What we do know from what he says is that there is a ‘mind’ and a ‘body,’ and that they are ‘connected.’
I’m suggesting that the connection is ‘identification’ which occurs between the indwelling consciousness and the body within the ‘mind.’ There may be other connections.
i sent the following email and link to michael brown’s pathway to awareness interview to some close friends and wanted to share it w/the blog as well…i feel like i’m truly growing and learning to heal all my emotional baggage and wanted to share my experiences:
for me the last couple years have been about coming to terms with all my emotional baggage– and man, there is a lot of it!– they seem to jump out of nowhere and feel like they’re taking over me– so in an instant something someone does or says, or nothing at all can seem to be happening…and bam! i can be riddled with fear, anger, sadness, frustration– any multitude of not-so-fun emotions.
with the help of eckhart tolle and other teachers i’ve realized that every time i’ve tried to do anything about any underlying discomfort in my life, nothing has really worked!!
i’ve tried to do something physically about my unease– by moving locations, boyfriends, jobs, buying a new car, clothes,etc– and the feeling hasnt gone away– maybe temporarily– but once i got settled in again– bam! that uncomfortable feeling creeps back in!
i’ve tried the junk of the “secret,” which is doing something mentally about my discomfort– telling myself i’m fine, i’m happy, i dont need money, a boyfriend, etc to make me happy…but deep down i know i’m still feeling like crap!! so this never has cured my discomfort either.
i’ve tried projecting and blaming my emotional turmoil on others and i always wound up feeling more awful about myself.
so i figured it wouldnt hurt to give what tolle and others suggest a try– to practice acceptance and surrender to what each moment brings into my life– to not “do” anything other than wield my awareness on any discomfort i FEEL rising within me. And by not fighting the icky feeling it will soon dissipate…but why would i want to accept these crummy feelings my mind said! but at this point i’m desperate so i gave this whole surrender to my emotions thing a whirl.
now dont get me wrong, when i first started trying this my mind fought me tooth and nail…so when any situation arose where my emotions started to rise it said, “do something for petes sake! why are you just sitting here? this feels like shit! you dont deserve this! this is his/her/the situations fault!”
but with practice i’m noticing that the simple act of placing my awareness on the CAUSAL point of my discomfort– which is the FEELING– not the person, or situation–which i cant change anyway–that by being with this feeling without condition–that this is the ONLY way i’ve ever actually seen a lessening of my discomfort.
the sooner we stop fighting our emotions and trying to “figure them out” mentally, i say the better. because the mind cant fix it. our actions cant fix it. how can the mind fix my emotions? it doesnt have any control in the matter!
just like we dont get to pick our parents or what color eyes we have– we arent in charge of what emotional body we are given, so we can analyze it til the cows come home and wish it gone– but it’s here– just like the rain when we wish it were sunny or the traffic when we really wanna get home.
So i say stop trying to do anything about it– or blaming someone or something for your pain–as my yoga teacher says– invite your demons for tea– they dont stay long when they realize you arent letting them get a rise out of you anymore!!!
anyway, didnt mean to babble that long but i felt compelled to share my thoughts. love you all. xoxo
http://www.compassionworks.com/_videos-brown-tpp.htm
“The behavior of obsessively attempting to help everyone is fueled by the reflection we see of our own helpless plight mirrored in the world.”
LOVE LOVE LOVE this quote from MB today b/c I totally relate to it from my own experience.
So what can I do about this?
Nothing other than accept the feeling and sit with it. I cant change it by doing or avoiding.
I realize now the root cause of all pain isnt the person or situation, it’s my resistance and emotional reaction to it.
For me the discomfort usually rises in my belly or chest area. So if I can sit with this feeling, and accept it’s there rather than let it take me over and react to it, my very awareness transmutes this feeling into presence and it disspates.
Giving to get is a real problem. I’ve did it all my life. However, giving spontaneously from the heart without wanting anything in return is something I am just now experiencing and there is a big difference.
I try to very careful about how I give because I know how important it is to not say yes when you mean no. I try very hard to give consciously. It’s a big transition from giving and expecting something in return to giving from the heart which may mean a big No to whatever is asked of me. Giving love can now mean to not give.
When I find myself giving to get it’s usually from fear so I try to feel the feelings instead of giving to make the feelings go away.
You could say, when we give ourselves gentleness and compassion we can then give that to others without wanting anything in return.
joy, i loved your response…i too am beginning to realize the difference of true giving from the heart versus out of fear or other feelings that need to be addressed within.
and i love how you pointed out that sometimes a genuine act of love can be in saying no to someone or something that is asked of you. so true and often so hard to do cuz i’m usually trying to please someone out of fear i’m somehow “not worthy” and thus i’m trying to “prove myself.”
I see emotions and feelings almost as entities that want and need to be felt. If ignored or sedated in any way they will not leave but hang around and continue to effect our experience [usually in a negative way], untill they are completely felt. Therefore I agree with the work Michael Brown is doing. He knows feelings in a deep way and he knows what needs to be done to integrate them. Peace
Yeah, really like MB.
If you or I was told by a docter that we had fatal disease and that diagnosis was confirmed by a second and third opinion and we were also told we had about a month before this body died we might get pretty scared, depressed, angry and a host of other negative feelings. At that point, the only way we could remain serene and calm is if we knew for sure that we were not the body, we were not the experience, we were not the life. I see this knowing as the most important realization I can achieve. So that is my quest. I realize that not everyone may have that as their main quest, but I know it is mine. Peace
I just read MB’s quote that you put in CompassionWorks today in “The Presence Process” last night. We really aren’t doing anybody a favor by carrying them around on our shoulders. Including our children. Hard lesson for me and I still fall into to it, although I “wake up” to what I’m doing much quicker these days.
About health issues and fears… I’ve been a hypochondriac my whole life and feared death and illness constantly. I didn’t even really realize how I had changed until recently I went to the doctor after a colonoscopy (they had done a biopsy on a polyp) and I was just sitting there talking and laughing with the doctor and I completely forgot to ask him what the results were. I was just enjoying the present moment with the doctor. At the end of the visit he says, “oh the polyp was benign.” Only then did I remember about it. I just didn’t have the fear I normally have. I don’t have the intense need to try and control this body anymore. I kind of feel like this body is going to do whatever it’s going to do and then it will die one day, that is for sure. I don’t have control of it. In fact, I don’t have much control of anything. Ahhh… what a relief.
I just finished speaking with someone and practicing being present. it was great! At one point our conversation turned to alcohol and drugs usage and how we both never indulged, not because we thought it was wrong to, but because we didn’t like the loss of control. I surmise that many people do drugs/alcohol to lose control and feel uninhibited, but I don’t like to feel like that.
I’m pondering this in light of Joy’s comment of realizing that she’s not in control of anything, and reading ET and MB’s work, there is a through-line in the teaching of surrender to not being in control which doesn’t feel safe to me…or am I not getting it right? I’m sorry that I can’t seem to be more articulate than this…its a feeling I can’t quite put into words…Does anyone have an inkling as to what I’m getting at?
namaste
Ahhh …. control. I’m not sure if if I can help but since “I come from control” and still find myself trying to control things, I’ll give it a shot.
It seems like the control you talk of is control of yourself and your life.
What doesn’t feel safe is that you will have to feel a feeling if you don’t control something. What I guess MB would say is to feel the feeling instead of trying to control something in your life. If you become aware of a situation you are trying to control, try stepping back from it and instead of doing something to control, see if you can feel in your body what is happening. Is it fear, anger? See if you can just feel the feeling instead of trying to control something.
Feeling the feeling that’s stuffed inside isn’t nearly as bad as trying to control everything. Control is exhausting. Feel your feelings enough and your need to control will drop away by itself because you will start to feel safe no matter what is going on.
I’m still working on it, you are not alone.
Even though loss of control is a side effect of using alcohol/drugs, I dont think it is the main reason they are taken on a regular basis. I believe people take them to numb feelings like fear, grief, anger etc. There are many other ways to numb feelings but substances are fast and effective. In the beginning it may be taken to be more spontaneous,or for chemical courage, but it soon mutates to feeling better or not feeling painfull feelings. Peace
mf-
I think it may help to look at it more as “letting go” of control not “losing” control. Does that sound less threatening to you?
Maybe the loss of control you feel from drinking is from losing inhibitions. But losing your inhibitions from being hijacked by alcohol is quite different from letting go of control of what’s going on around you.
From this work you may find yourself less inhibited, however, you won’t be dancing on the table with a lampshade on your head, unless you want to.
What the heck does this mean?
Nisar: “The more earnest you are at remembering what needs to be remembered, the sooner will you be aware of yourself as you are, for memory will become experience.”
I think Nisar is saying, the more effort you put into remembering you are not the mind/body, the more real that will be for you. It will become your experience.
“memory will become experience”
thanks joy and larry for your insightful comments, they were helpful. yes, ‘letting go’ of control does feel less threatening than ‘losing’ control, which to me seems similar to being out of control. but i still might do the lampshade thing…that could be fun!
Question from Bob posted in the Oct 08 thread: “Jordan you mentioned a few Daily Nows ago about easing into the day. What does this mean to you?”
In The Power of Now, Eckart says to feel into your body before going to sleep. You lay in bed on your back and do a body scan, noticing places of tension, relaxation and aliveness. Just feel it. You don’t have to ‘do’ anyting about it.
In the same way, you can do that upon waking.
When you first wake up, feel into your body. Notice what happens as life wakes up into you; as opposed your waking up into life.
Feel what’s there. Maybe a knot in the stomach, maybe a feeling of dread – or it may be joy and happiness. Just notice what happens when ever the body “reboots.”
Sometimes it is best to get out of bed, and go sit meditatively and, again, notice as the body wakes up. Not trying to change anything. Not trying to make anything better. Just becoming the watcher of a different part of the experience of life.
By the way, it is helpful, if not imperative, to make thinking about ‘feeling-into-the-body-upon-awakening’ as your last thought as you go to sleep. At first you may forget until later in the day, after you’ve already been awake for a few hours. That’s fine, just remind your self to do it again in the morning. After awhile, it becomes a habit.
‘Healing is not an authentic use of are energy’ MB.
I think I disagree. At times healing is just what the Doctor ordered. There is a time for healing. But I agree to make fixing or healing [your life experience], your life’s work is not something I would do If I had a choice. I am more attracted to realizing I am not the life or the life experience. Same thing. I am what experiences the life and everything else. Peace
I have a new Zen Master. He is my 5 year old grandson. He mirrors everything I have not looked at in myself. God bless him.
He is stubborn, defiant, moody, and angry. Oh wait a minute that’s me.
Thanks sweetie. Keep up the good work.
mf-
A video I ran across from Francis Lucille about control.
‘Life is but a dream.’ Sometimes in a night dream while the body is sleeping, something strange will happen and I’ll realize I’m dreaming. The body is asleep. There are times when strange things happen in dreams and I just accept them. In the physical life,I know I am used to it but, it also seems pretty strange here. Like who am I? .Why dont I know or remember? Where is this? They say I’m on a planet floating in infinite space and time. Why do I appear to be in this strange body? Everyone agrees the body changes and dies. And then seemingly impossible things start happening here. Dreaming what will happen after I am [awake]. How can that happen? The TV or radio repeats what I say. Almost daily,sometimes two or three times. How can that happen? Oh I know. I must be dreaming! Namaste
‘Transform desire into love’ Nisar. I love that. I feel desire transform into love and I love Love. I love all. Namaste
thanks for the francis lucille video, joy — yep, that’s me, turning my toy steering wheel, imagining I am in control of the direction of the car, of the ride, of my LIFE (and I have a STRONG, well developed imagination), feeling terrified when I realize I am not, then thankful and beyond relieved when my bad potentially life threatening turns are nothing at all…because I am not in control, never have been and (this is the best part) I DON’T NEED TO BE. whew! now I can relax and enjoy the ride. Cuz, to paraphrase Francis, spirit (or whatever it’s called) is a much better driver.
If only I could remember this.
The Best of Eckhart Tolle:
“You can be receptive, tune in to, become sensitive to, the state of consciousness that could be described; because,
you might ask how to become alert and aware of an underlying field of stillness out of which the words and sound comes…
and it’s gone.
Whoosh! ”
Whoosh!
I have always worn my ability to suppress feelings like a badge. Now I am going through the Presence Process and unlearning this. I have never cried so much in my life. At first I was relieved I COULD cry, now I wonder when it will end. Storm before the calm? I’m having a difficult time being with myself. I know who the messenger is, I know what the intended message is, yet I am having such difficulty saying goodbye metaphorically to the messenger. In the physical world I did say goodbye. Now I obsess over the loss. Is this just a mental diversion…to take my attention off of my own journey?
KT-
I think the “messenger ” is here so that we may feel our old childhood grief and anger. If you are not making that connection you may not feel any relief.
If I only focus on the current loss I just kind of wallow in it. That’s my experience anyway.
Nis:
“Having things under control at all times is austerity.”
Is he saying this is a good thing? Im so confused.
Yes, I think he is saying austerity is a good thing. He is saying living with no desire for pain or pleasure, or the unnecessary is austerity.
I understood it perfectly until I tried to explain it – so it must be a Truth.
J
Nis “It is the choices you make that are wrong’. It seems like he is speaking to a questioner. But is that the doer let alone the chooser? I would say the questioner is not the doer or the chooser. The doer and chooser is the one who does and chooses everything. Nis apparently felt this was the best thing to say to the questioner, although it may not be the ultimate truth.
Also what is apparently chosen and apparently done is all unfolding as it should and is beyond any concept of right or wrong. Namaste
“Having things under control at all times” That’s the part that’s still throwing me. I don’t see how that is austerity or desirable.
I guess that’s an inherent problem with written remarks from someone who is dead, you can’t ask them what they meant.
I see how the word austerity can mean having things under control. It is not over doing anything. You need to have things under control to not over do anything. Over doing things is not desirable. If that is something you do or can do than you will do it.
“Indulgence is the stupid way, Austerity is the wise way.” Nis. I see many seem to choose the stupid way and many seem to choose the wise way. But I have to wonder who really chooses. Do the many even have a choice? Namaste
Larry- Thanks, I understand now about the control thing.
Nis: “Indulgence is the stupid way, Austerity is the wise way.”
Contemporary Western teachers do not use these words so it’s weird to hear
them . And I agree with you : Do the many even have a choice?”
I can relate to what ET is pointing to. The backround of all words, thoughts, things, etc is pure empty stillness. I usually put my attention on all the things within the empty stillness and ignore what all things exist in. Namaste
The three worlds. The three worlds are the conscious mind the subconcious mind and the superconcious mind. Like the body the mind is a vehichle to know the self I Am.
Jvs “I dont know what you do – or if “you” even exist.” I dont know if you or I exist. I know something rather than nothing exists.
Yes, I know that ’something’ rather than nothing exists. And, I can look ‘within’ and know that that ’something’ exists within the field of awareness that I call ‘me’ or ‘I am’. And in the same way, I can’t look within and know that the object or thing or sensory experience I call ‘you’ exists.
Therefore, I ‘know’ that ‘I am’ but I don’t ‘know’ that ‘you am.’
J, I Know what you mean when you say ” I know “I am” but I dont know that “you am.” As far as you know I can be an illusion. When I look “within and see that something exists, “I” see it but I have a hard time calling it “me” or “I am”. I know thats what most non-dualists call it.It feels too much like “it’s mine or ownership. It also feels too personal. So “I” call it something or that. Thats why I say “I” am not sure if what I see is me or I am.
You’re probably right.
When I look within and ‘know’ that something exists, and if the next thought is, “Oh, that’s ‘me’ or the ‘I am’ then that is probably the first step towards identification.
Somehow it has to be opening up to the awareness that something exists and then staying in that space (being the ‘beingness’ in that space) without a movement away from or towards anything.
“Somehow it has to be opening up to the awareness that something exists and then staying in that space (being the ‘beingness’ in that space) without a movement away from or towards anything.” jshafer
Hello Larry and J — at first I felt your convo was too heady and esoteric for me, but with J’s last comment something, a space, opened. I can still feel it, and I am resisting the habitual impulse to name it. When I can remember to, I stay in the spaciousness and just be. Of course, my next thought is since, as according to Micheal Brown, I was never taught the value of being as opposed to doing (or rather my being was devalued and rejected), is what is the point or benefit in continuing to stay in that awareness of something existing?
Great pointers from all today.
“Somehow it has to be opening up to the awareness that something exists and then staying in that space (being the ‘beingness’ in that space) without a movement away from or towards anything.”
The above was particularly good JS.
I don’t know who meditates, but is the “space” like what we find during meditation. I used to practice TM and I would get into this “space” where thoughts would cease. Time seemed to cease, it was a kind of like you were floating in your mind. A very pleasant experience.
Nis: “But when you look at anything as separate from you, you cannot love it for you are afraid of it.”
I still “imagine” my angry little grandson that does not want to get into his school clothes as separate from me. He is my mirror as to how self-realized I am.
Thank God for him. I can’t remember if it’s Michael Brown or Eckhart that says, “If you think you are self realized go spend a week with your family.”
Very funny.
shit. I’m about to go spend a week with my family…and I’m already stressed. LOL. Ah well. At least I harbor no illusions that I am self-realized!
mf,Boy, we have something in common. By the time my step-father was through with me, I felt I did not have the right to exist. I did not have the right to take up space. He also made me feel like I could not do anything right. So I felt like I had no right to be and I could not do anything. I felt worthless. Feeling work helped quite a bit.
I “look” within at beingness [I look within me], because I believe the “looking” at and “experiencing” what is,will help me realize who or what I am and it will improve the quality of my life experience.
Namaste
Jvs: “… what it means to be dispassionate. MB is allowing for feelings to arise and fall in the field of awareness and ’staying’ with them. The misunderstanding is in thinking dispassionate means being ‘disconnected’ from feelings or ‘disconnected’ from experiences as they unfold. The difference is subtle but important.”
Jordan, you really sparked a wonderful inquiry for me.
I sense an echo from the old-school gnani in Nis’s “It is enough to watch oneself dispassionately to isolate oneself completely from what is going on.” In MB, esp in going thru The Presence Process w/ the book of that name, I feel we have a new, richer paradigm – to compassionately embrace our “causal felt-resonance” (does that mean our emotions?).
Dispassionate awareness for me = hovering above the ‘little me’.
Compassionate awareness for me = embracing and allowing, soothing & understanding the ‘little me’ as we witness the birth of our higher consciousness.
Thankful for you Jordan, for Compassionworks, and for all involved.
Blessings, blissings.
mf and Larry – your sensitivity and distress resonate so much with me. It seems in the context of family we are, as Jesus said, “never recognized in our own country.”
For me, visits to the parents became much easier when I let go of wanting them to see or understand me. Visits took on the quality and depth of cartoons.
(an friend loves to call his parents “the fossils”!)
MB says the child believes that because he knows he is responsible for his experience he believes he must also be responsible for experiences of his parents and siblings. I might add that parents and siblings also add to the belief by their responses to the childs behavior. Yes, children are egocentric but a frown or spanking goes a long way to convince a child he has hurt someone else and caused their anger. Then religions may confuse the issue by adding that we chose the devil who encouraged us to do bad things. Just my ponderings about the brainwashing that we all endure the first years of our lives. It takes the rest of our lives to undo the fears of our own power.
Happy Thanksgiving to all!!!
Kat
The mind body connection- Just as the physical world is a mirror or reflection of what is held within consciousness so is the physical body. When energy is not expressed fully it finds its place of expression within the physical body. This is the cause for different types of disease. We all have patterns of thinking and collections of thoughts that form attitudes. Unconscious energy is stored within the body. The reason they can’t find the cure for disease is that they are looking within the realm of effects. We as humans naturaly look to the physical realm for the cause.
Hello out there: I awoke with an inquiry this morning and would like some help and feedback. Awareness seems to have no purpose. Awareness just is…. and thoughts arise within awareness. Some thoughts we attach to and we suffer because we beleive they are our thoughts and in this limitation they are usually thoughts based in duality and are fear based. And yet within the play of “life” or maya, these thougths sometimes ultimately lead us to discovering our true selves (causing so much pain, that we search, and sometimes come to insights about who we truly are). So in this sense, these thoughts arising in awareness are awareness itself seeking itself, wanting to know itself (if that is its purpose). Question simply: can thoughts be in service to awareness. We speak of body-mind-feelings as not our real self, which seems true in the sense that this is not ALL that we are, but can we also see body-mind as arising in awareness and having a function. The thought might come to call someone and the conversation leads us to an insight that leads us to realizing we are not the body, for example…. so the thougth arising in awareness could be seen as having the purpose of awakening us to our Self, awareness. Perhap this is showing me that the mind is trying to understand awareness and its purpose, and the mind can not, amd awaremess is just aware of this thought. Love some feedback.
Yes, that is the purpose or utility of ‘thought’; to be of service to awareness.
I see it as two kinds of thoughts: ‘thinking thoughts’ and ‘awareness thoughts’ – that is, thoughts that come from other thoughts and thoughts that are informed by awareness. Eckhart talks about this as ‘horizontal’ thoughts (thinking thoughts) and ‘vertical thoughts’ (awareness informed thoughts).
That’s why thoughts are not the ‘bad guys’ they’re made out to be.
The trick, for me, is knowing the difference. Separating out ‘egoic’ thoughts that are disguised as ‘awareness informed thoughts’ from the real thing.
In one sense, it doesn’t really matter because it’s ‘all love’ but on the other hand, as my intention is to live in my True Nature, allowing my purpose to flow through me, then it seems that awareness informed thoughts are my teacher and leader.
How to know the difference? Meditation helps. Tuning into the inner body helps. Feeling helps. Being okay with screwing it up and not always getting it right helps. Sending me large amounts of money helps.
I think the mind gets stumped when it tries to ‘understand’ awareness because it can’t. But the mind, with ‘thought’ as the tool can be guided and informed by awareness.
Just kidding about the money, jordan
Very helpful, thank you. Enjoyed your humor as well. You said your intention was to live in your true nature. That caught my attention, because I am drawn to Beingness without intention. If I have the intention to live in my true nature, who is the “I” that wants to live in true nature? My beingness does not need to be intended… it is always. Another part of me thinks i do want to intend somethihg, but then I know that is not my true Self. In true beingness I have no effort, no intention, no attachment to anything, any outcome. My fears do bring my back to something less than that. Is there a very subtle point when we ARE Beingness, always in remembrance of that and also conscious of the form we are in this world?
– My Friends,
On this approaching holiday of Thanksgiving here in the states, I wish to say Wa Do (Thank you) for your friendship. In Giving I wish to give a blessing of love and light to all of you and your families. Raising the planet to the level of true unconditional love is what the first Thanksgiving was for the Pilgrims. On that day the Native Americans gave food and healing herbs to the Pilgrims unconditionally to help them survive the winter. Let us all continue to spread the vibration of love throughout the world in peace and harmony. Have a happy holiday!
live, light, love,
Crooked Arrow”
I Mariola Gorski second that,nothing to add,nothing to take away.Well spoken/WRITTEN.
RE: Gabriella
“If I have the intention to live in my true nature, who is the “I” that wants to live in true nature?
I would say when minds “want” to live in True Nature they are playing the old game: returning power to the ego, but with the subtle twist the it “wants to be spiritual.”
Mind > concept > word by its nature cannot “comprehend” or desrcibe True Nature. Eckhart talks often of signposts. We can study them, collect them, analyze n discuss them, but ultimately they must be left behind.
You may benefit from some inquiry into Zen, which seeks to show the futility of using the mind by posing questions such as “What is the sound of one hand clapping?”
Or ponder the moibus strip – how can something material have only two dimensions?
The True Nature cannot be realized within the context of thinking. It is a quantum leap into a state that cannot be known by the mind.
It is diving into water without becoming wet.
RE: Gabriella
“Is there a very subtle point when we ARE Beingness, always in remembrance of that and also conscious of the form we are in this world?”
OSHO says there can be no co-existence between mind and no-mind. Transcending the ego is often described as dying to the world. When you ARE Beingness you are (gratefully) dead. In that state, you realize you are ALWAYS in this state, yet you have a choice – to return to form, return to the game – or depart. Free.
Sri Ramakrishna said we must be willing to become mad – passionately mad for God. In today’s US culture, he would be considered insane.
Richard Moss in his excellent book, The Mandela of Being, says that as we approach True Nature, we may encounter great obstacles and deep darkness > it is not comfortable or easy to transcend the ego – a very resilent force within us. Tolle reached the point of suicide before breaking through. Byron Katie became so lost she forgot her name and had to be reintroduced to her husband and children.
Mystical Buddhism describes being enlightened and staying in the body as walking the edge of a razor (not a safety razor – the ancient kind).
In my experience, thinking, talking, meditating, darshan, satsang, dharma are ways to hang around enlightenment. To experience it requires lightning to strike your heart, with or without your consent.
Thank you Jonr for the responses to my earlier blog. I sense that you are right that all of this is dancing around living Beingness completely, always aware, and if it is a choice that we reenter the game, I would say that it is a very subtle choice that hides behind strong habit and conditioning of the mind. At what point do we make that choice and who makes it? If it is true that it requires lightening to strike the heart, then that would mean that something has to happen for us to be what everyone says we all are already. This is contrary to what most people say: that it requires a weakening of the grip of mind, ego to be able to choose and maintain beingness which is always, we are just not aware. Perhaps it requires a quantum leap… a complete shift of reality. Any ideas on how this leap occurs?
Lately,I spend a lot of time saying, “Oh, I’m so not in the now.” But I think the main thing is to keep it real, as they say. Knowing I’m not in the now, is a way of saying Yes to the No (as Echkart say.)
MB also say’s it’s a process, hence the name of his book I guess. That it’s not going to be a sudden awakening.
It can also be all very confusing hearing statements like, “You don’t do anything” blah, blah, blah. Especially when you are in the middle of something you really want to get out of, be it a bad mood, or a work situation. But, I have had a sense of the stillness inside and I have seen many improvements in my personal relationships so I guess something is happening.
There does seem to be some “thing” that is not personally affected by the coming and going of the forms and I really do want to live from that space.
Sometimes life, although a great teacher, can be an overload. It helps me to go sit in a park with nature. That stillness can help me reconnect to my own stillness. It seems a bit easier to then carry that stillness into the traffic jam on the way home from the park.
Sending me lots of money helps too. Very funny JS.
I just called my mother to say happy thanksgiving. She asked, did you go anywhere? no. Did you see anyone? no. Have you met anyone? no. I told her I’m the type that others say to “get a life”. But I said I’ll be OK because I’m not my life. After I got off the phone I started talking to the child that I was. I said I’m sorry for all the pain and suffering you went through. I kept saying it and crying. I felt love and compassion for myself as a child and now. I just wanted to tell someone. Larry
Blessings to you Larry. I just wanted to say that you ARE okay, and you are never alone… you are part of the ONE heart. As we stay in Presnece and Beingness, our outer world will reflect the love and joy more and more… Thanks for sharing!!
Larry: Thanks for sharing.
Gabriella: Thanks for sharing, as well. It seems that L’s post has opened up within you your deep sense of caring and love that wants to assure and comfort another.
Also, there may be some discomfort and fear at seeing another in pain. (I know there was for me.)
Would it be okay to find those places of love and fear within your body/mind and feel them and sit with them?
Literally, I would invite you to think about or re-read the post, let feelings arise, and then shift your awareness to within the body and see where you can find the sensations of love and fear. (There may be other feelings, which is fine, but the basic feelings are love, fear, anger, grief). You may find them in the chest, stomach, heart, head, legs, etc. Then sit with those feelings (aka body sensations) and feel those.
I wonder what would want to be shared from that place?
Thanks,again. j
Thoughts on thought. We hear many teachers of the now speak of stillness. Stillness speaks. It is the space between thought that leads to greater freedom and choice of all thought. When we are enlightened every thought will be chosen. We will have complete conscious choice. By the still mind is the real self known. The problem with so many teaching is that they fail to teach how to discipline and still the mind. Jesus disciples were so because they were learning to disipline the mind. Later they became apostales or teachers. It is very difficult to be in the now if you have a habit of being all over the place. It is through the learning of concentration that we take hold of the wheel of the mind. A daily exercise in concentration practiced every day for at least 10 minutes. It is the attention that directs the mind. How can you ever have intention that you hold fast to if you cant control your attention. It is having the skill set of undivided attention, concentration, listening and memory that leads to knowing the whole self. Without this we are left to the mercy of the brain and ego. We live from unconsious habit. This is the lower self. Its not what you think but how you think. The highest form of thinking is reasoning. To be able to reason we need to have consious control of the memory-past the attention -now and the imagination-future. These three working togethor connect us to ourselves then we can feel and know connection instead of talking about. When we have this we can keep moving deeper and deeper into work like Micheal Brown gives us. We can capture and perceive different branches of the tree that once layed outside our awarness because our thoughts took up all the space that existed within. Concentration is the key. I have heard Tiger Woods called the greatest athlete for this-his ability to control his attention. The ego doesn’t care much for discipline because it knows that it is the beginning of the end for it. The ego loves the past undiciplined memory thoughts and the future full of wishful thinking.
Thank you for the reminder to look within and feel the discomfort of the experience. Thanks to both Larry and Jordan. Every moment is an opportunity to feel the discomfort and be present to it. When is the next presence circle by telephone??
The next phone Presence group is scheduled for Sunday, Dec 21, at 6:00 pm Central Time. It’ll start being announced on TDN beginning Dec 2. j
Gabriella thankyou for your kind words and thankyou J. Most importantly, thankyou both for being a witness for my feelings. I need others to see and confirm what I’m feeling. Thankyou again.
You are welcome, Larry. It seems to me that there is nothing more beautiful than witnessing the unfolding and awakening and beingness. This post has helped me over the last few days to be more present to the body sensations, especially of anxiety. Now I am wondering why that body sensation is so difficult for so many–once sat with, it can actually feel like joy and bubbles.
I listened to MB’s interview this morning… also very helpful to hear his description of being present to sensations and feelings. I think this approach works better for me than just realizing that I am awareness within which feelings and thoughts appear. Once the feelings have less charge, perhaps that will be enough for me to rest in beingness and not be bothered by thoughts and feelings. Thank you for the CN and all who blog.
I believe from my own experience feeling work like MB’s,Bradshaw and others will not only lead to more peace but will take one toward spiritual experiences, feelings of oneness, etc. Some spiritual beliefs, processes and paths, and certain types of meditation serve to block feelings and emotions. I believe blocking feelings is going to get in the way of spiritual realization. Namaste
Nis: “And you are not sure of yourself because you never paid attention to yourself, only to your experiences.”
This is very John Sherman who says. ” Just look at yourself.” It takes attention off your experience. It is really the practice of Atma Vichara where you ask the question “Who am I” or “Who knows these thoughts”
This is so simple my mind says, “That’s ridiculous.” But I keep doing it though out the day. I’ll keep you posted.
If we speak of our experiences and say on one hand they may present pain and on the other hand they may present pleasure and we see that we may get caught up in either side of this at any given moment. Then what?-why do we even have experiences? What is the purpose of being in a body and experiencing form? What is it that causes us to no longer have to experience the polarity of life. What lies at the heart? If there is not the connection to what is presented in the experiences then life remains empty and painful no matter what state of mind is achieved. The first real question I asked at 15 was a simple one, “What is the purpose of life, why are we here?
Could it be that we are only imagining we are in a body when we are really what the body and experiences and everything else exists or takes place in. Could it be that we have these experiences only to realize they are imaginary and that we are dream characters. What is the purpose of life? Can the finite know the infinite? Peace
Everything in nature grows up to be like the parent be it a tree human or dog. It moves through cycles to become like. Does it not say in scripture that we are created in the image and likeness of our creator. If we take that to heart then we must be creaters ourselves.Maybe our experience is to become mature and compatible to our creator. Is this not what Jesus and Budda did. They evolved along a path that they became more and more conscious and they developed the will for choosing the thoughts. They earned the right to weild greater and greater energy. The purpose of life is to build permanent understanding of the universal laws and to mature as a creator. This seed is or blueprint of the self is held within the superconscious mind. When understanding is being added to the self then the polarity disappears. The truth will set you free. When jesus was on the cross he said father if it be thy will let this cup fall from me. A cup holds something it is a container and what he is asking is if he has filled the container with complete understanding then let it fall. He did have complete understanding and no longer needed to incarn into a body. These understanding became a permanent part of the superconscious mind completing the plan or seed idea.
It is right in front of our face.