This is a moderated, open forum for people wishing to share their experiences of Presence as pointed to in the teachings of The Daily Now (www.thedailynow.net) and other teachers of non-dual Wisdom. Questions and observations are also invited.
Quotes from Eckhart Tolle and random thoughts on EMDR & Nondual Wisdom
This is a moderated, open forum for people wishing to share their experiences of Presence as pointed to in the teachings of The Daily Now (www.thedailynow.net) and other teachers of non-dual Wisdom. Questions and observations are also invited.
Jordon, About six months ago I started a meditation in stillness
group at my studio at the request of a person here in town. I was so
resistant to doing it but she kept asking and so I just did it. In
the beginning people came and we sat in silence and listened to a
cd. and I was very anxious about it all and weeks passed and people
came and I was anxious and confused, but I felt like wanted to just
allow the space for stillness to unfold. But I kept sittting with it
because it felt right but that was all I knew.
So for about the past 3 months no one comes and I sit there in
stillness and hold the space…..After being with you Sunday nite it
was like this whole thing transformed because I realized it has
nothing to do with what I do or say, but it is holding the space for
Presence and everything changed from that experience. I knew all
that intellectually but Sunday evening I experienced it and your
example just made it all so embodied for me. So thanks, I always say
the river brings us what we need
when we need it…..Happy Thanksgiving, Kate
On Nov 26, 2008, at 7:25 AM, CompassionWorks wrote:
Kate, thank you for sharing. I would love to see you again, call me, listed in Princeton. Joan
Hi Jordan,
hope all is well. I just learned about the ‘Great Northwest’ Silence Retreat, and I feel quite excited. Although I have felt ‘called’ to the ‘Pacific Northwest’ for a couple of years I have not had a chance to ‘respond.’ I hope to join you next summer; no expectations, just possibilities.
Presence,
Jose
Jose,
Thanks for checking in. That would be great! I’d love it if Daily Now readers are able to join us. Another way to connect – in Presence. Jordan
Jordan … what is meant by “alert immobility”? In my mind, they don’t seem to go together!
Thank you
Ter
Hi Ya’ll!
I picked up a Vernon Howard book this weekend and this struck me, “Self-justification is an impediment to growth.” I am just beginning to notice how much I have been trying to be right!
Hope your December is filled with love!
Shannon
I think “Alert Immobility” would be similar as what Eckhart is referring to when he says ‘be like a cat watching a mouse hole.’
Being very still and very alert at the same time.
That’s good about Vernon Howard and self-justification as an impediment to growth.
Self-justification is a form of defensiveness which, of course, would block growth. I just hadn’t thought of it like that. Thanks.
I agree with MB. There is no-one to blame. On the other hand when I’m doing feeling work, I might express anger with these words. ” I hate you, you ruined my life.” The words used to express feelings do not have to be rational or true. Peace
Larry, I’d invite you to look deeper into that. That type of feeling expression becomes a self-reinforcing loop that is hard to get out of. The pairing of blame (You did xxx to me) with intense adrenal arousal (anger) can’t be de-conditioned with rational thought because it is below the level of the pre-frontal cortex (thinking brain). And, it is not de-conditioned with overt expression; although overt expression does bring the deeper pairing to the surface level of awareness – so, in that sense, it can be useful.
That’s why I like EMDR.
ALERT IMMOBILITY- There are two aspects to creation. These are ying and yang or the aggressive and receptive principles of creation. These principles are held within the superconscious mind. The life force that sustains all creation flows from here.
Elightment is both acheived and received. This statement is speaking to being receptive. Half of our time needs to be spent doing and half needs to be spent being. These two need to be in balance. This is the deeper meaning beyond the physical expression of the polarities.
The best place to practice and learn in through meditation. Your prayer or topic is the aggressive action and when you practice that of “expectant “listening you develop the receptive quality. The listening has the quality of expectancy think about ordering something and how you anticipate and expect the delivery. The receptive quality draws to itself. The feminine is receptive and its ability is to draw towards itself it is being. The male is aggresive action and it is doing. Ying and yang.
The now is about stilling the mind and becoming present to what is.Most people look at it for the state of mind but it is also becoming present to what your experiences are presenting or giving to you. Everthing is given if you are able to receive it.
As we approach 2012 enlightment has never been easier if you learn to receive it otherwise it may be very painful
Jordan, I understand what your saying. From my experience the one who is yelling, “I hate you etc” is a 5 to 8 year old child who does not understand the concept [there is no-one to blame]. Also I find when the child is given free reign to yell at the caretaker he believes hurt him [and this is where I disagree], the intensity of his rage will be lessened and will not become a self-reinforcing loop. At least this is true in my case. The rage was in the way of forgiveness. Lessening the intensity of the childs rage will eventually lead to forgiveness. Then it is much easier for the thinking mind to realize there is nothing to forgive as there is no-one to blame.
Steve, you mentioned the year 2012 while talking about enlightenment. Is there something about that year that I have not heard about?
2012- The most common thing that we here about 2012 is that it is when the mayan calender ends. There are also alighnments that will and are occurring now in the solar system. We are moving towards the center of the galaxy.
The most important thing I have received inwardly about this time period is that what they refer to as the end of time will be just that a end of time- not the world but time. Time is a measurment of distance along a horizontal plane.
If time goes away we will have no choice but to be in the “now” We will evolve collectivly as a group.
This is also what the book of revelation is about. Judgement day says we will be judged for our sins. On a deeper level a sin is just a mistake that is repeated over and over like a re-action that is never resolved. Because of time and having free will we have practised avoidance. This could go on forever it is the bottemless pit refered to in revelation. What we have avoided will be brought to the surface individualy and collectivly.
It seems as though time is speeding up in our experience but it is actually going away.
Last year In January I saw the economic crisis on the horizon. I moved all my funds out of the stock market into t-bills. I saw the bubble but it was not the bubble we here of in the news. What I saw was a huge bubble of practised avoidance. I new this would burst and be displayed with this crisis. This crisis speaks so loudly to what we have practised for so long.
I could write a book on it. Back to “common sense” in everything we approach. When people lack a commen sense in real life they can leave a trail of destruction that they have no connection to. They have no resposibility for it they don’t even know they did it. They are narrcisstic. This is what we have let happen to ourselves.
A universal truth is that you have to produce more than you consume. This works both spiritualy and economicaly there is no seperation.
You produce more spiritualy by learning and receiving from your experiences. People who avoid and re-act consume there experiences but nothing is returned -given – produced- for the soul. We become consumed by our experiences. It is the snake eating its tail.
We will have to be able to breath properly to process the emense energy that is already being given. I will write about the breath another time soon.
God speed
Hello group!
Can somebody tell me which are the Six Enemies of the Mind? Thanks.
Well, surely anger, judgment, pride, would be part of this “cloud of interference” that limits our ability to release … Midge
I’m wondering about that too, Aaron!
Will you tell us, Jordan?
I hope one of them isn’t chocolate!
O wait, that’s probably under desire….
Oh thanks, Midge!
With regard to the ’six enemies of the mind’, I don’t know. I can’t find it in that chapter, nor earlier in the book, although it is probably there.
We know that desire and fear are two.
I suppose, anger, grief could be two more.
That leaves room for sex and chocolate!
Further to the previous post: Where is Larry when we need him?
I was thinking pride,and vanity. I agree desire, agression, which is caused by ignorance. The ignorance being the belief that I am a seperate someone and not connected to everything and everyone. Peace
The 6 enimies of the mind.
The scattered mind is at the top of the list. If you are unable to control your attention it will be controled by the author-ity of the ego. The ego has five immediate tools at its disposel for further control. The 5 senses. You become stimulated -sensory engrossment ensues. Attachment to desires stems from there. Anger comes next and burns the ability to have clear judgement. The self is unable to learn from the experiences and mistakes. The full range of emotional onslaught appears. Doubt, indesion,fear,anger, inertia-procrtastion, denial. resistance etc.
The attention has been given to what is temporary instead of permanent. The soul recieves no wisdom or permanent understanding. A life is wasted and death follows.
To say “enemies of the mind” is a little confusing to me because I saw thought and the mind as something that was hiding truth from me. It is why many teachings try to still the mind or go beyond thought. It is believed the truth, oneness, even enlightenment, is realized beyond thought. Beyond the mind. And yet we always have to start with the mind, even to overcome it. I would say my enemies or our enemies are desire and fear leading to anger, hate, aggression, and war. All these comming from not knowing we are all one. PEACE
larry- I think another way to see it is that the main purpose of stilling the mind is because that is its natural state. The brain and the mind are not the same. The mind is the vehichle to know the self. It was created for a purpose. Everything exists for a purpose. We live on a plane that has seperation for a purpose.
The mistake that people make is that its not to get beyond thought and the mind but to use thought with intelligence and use the whole mind with conscious control. To be a mental creator like your creator. A holy man is so because he understands and uses the whole mind -he has become whole and complete in the image he was created in.
When we are able to use the whole mind instead of the mind using us we can add understandings to the self at a rapid rate.
People still look to enlightment as a means to an end.
Even if you reach a place like Eckhart the goal is still the same. To add understandings to the self, to understand all the aspects of the self. When the cup becomes full the chalice then we no longer need to incarn. What we make permanent is brought forward each lifetime as permanent memory stored in the soul. What is not permanent is information stored in the brain and we know what happens there.
Every holy book has some kind of battle taking place with the self and some adversary. This is the battle of the ego and the soul and its about what is permanent and what offers temporary satisfaction. The adversary also has a purpose. Without it you would never become enlightened.
The physical world is a classroom for us to become creators in our own wright. It is a reflective world of effects of what has been created in consciousness. Our experiences are the teacher.
When the student is ready the teacher will appear.
Steve,
This is a beautifully nourishing read. Thank you for writing it.
Shannon
Steve I am having a hard time agreeing with what you said in your last post. I would like to hear from some other people to see what they thought of it. I realize from your point of view everything you say is true. Here are some of my ideas.
“The main purpose of stilling the mind is because that is it’s natural state.” The natural state of the mind is what we see when we leave it alone. Continuous thought. Continuous movement.
“The mind is the vehicle to know the self.” The self can not be known by the mind. The self can only be experienced. It’s seems you have made knowing and understanding the self king. I believe the king needs to depart it’s throne.
The belief in a seperate person or seperate soul that reincarnates is something I dont know but the Tibetan Buddhists believe we reincarnate untill we learn we are not a seperate someone. We are all one. Belief that one is a seperate someone is the main ignorance that must be overcome.
They say man uses a small percentage of the mind and knows very little of the subconscious mind. It takers quite a bit of feeling work to make a small % of what is subconscious conscious. I dont believe there is a man or a holy man that controls and uses his whole mind.
I agree enlightenment is not a means to an end. There is always more to be experienced [not known].
Some say we live in a dream of time, space, phenomena and seperation.The dream has absolutely no purpose other than awakening from it. This is another point of view I am not sure of.
I agree this world is a school with classrooms that teaches us about the [physical world] through cause and effect. Effects being the teacher. Peace
As best I understand it, Steve is not expressing the teachings that are presented by teachers in The Daily Now. What he is saying is fine and appreciated; and they may be another view into the same truths.
The statment: “…that its not to get beyond thought and the mind but to use thought with intelligence and use the whole mind with conscious control.” I’m sure this is true from one perspective but it’s not the truth as I know it.
We may use a thought like a thorn to pluck other thoughts but in the end, the thorn has to go.
Additionally: “To be a mental creator like your creator” sounds like duality to me.
Behind every form lies a function. It has been seperated to be PRESENT-able yet remains invisable. If you look you can see it NOW.
Todays quote by ET refers to the end of time. “Some are saying the end is near.” We both know a few days ago there was a blog about the end of time in the year 2012. I understand ET is joining the end of time with ending being identified with thought. Jordan my question to you is,did you include that statement by ET because it was being bloged about very recently or did it just happen? If it just happened I can relate to that. To me that would mean it was done through and not by you. Just like everything we do. It’s just that the infinite sometimes reveals itself as the doer. Peace
I just realized besides talking about the end of time we were also bloging about getting rid of thought. Your analogy with the thorn as a thought, that we eventually must give up. So ET speaks to many of our very recent blogs and ideas. I dont believe in coincidence.
We’re using the Eckhart quotes from the transcripts of the retreat, and they are being followed sequentially, so it is just a matter of entering what comes up next. The same is true for MB quotes, following the trancsript, and with Nisargatta I am just working through the book.
It’s also interesting when the three quotes, ET, MB, and Nis parallel each other and point to the same truth.
It’s all just happening in the truest sense of the word.
One thing about this teaching is that it is not about creating a better more effective ‘me.’
A few years ago I was working with a client who had been with me for several months, going on a year. Sometimes he would leave his session, ‘get’ all we’d talked about and come back and report he’d had a great week. The next week he’d ‘get’ everything we’d talked about, leave and come back and report he’d had a terrible week.
This was a domestic violence case, so we were working on a serious, important issue for his primary relationship, which was his violence towards his partner.
One day he came in and reported more abusive behavior, and I finally realized something, I ‘got’ it. What I got was that my ‘little me’/ego was trying to help him create a better ‘little me’/ego and it was f’in futile.
And I think that is true on every level, from the most asleep to the most awake. Trying to create a better me will only do just that, create a better me – and that ain’t it. j
word!
Every moment gives something to be received.
What?! Steve! I disagree!
just kidding…..
Thanks you guys for the lovely interplay.
‘We dont always know how to stand up for ourselvs in a way that is respectful of others and allow us to stay with our integrity,at the same time”. That really touched a nerve in more ways than one. Jordan it seems you have the ability to be diplomatic when when writing and I guess talking to others. I see I need to be more diplomatic and state my ideas or feelings to others but still remain respectful. I appologize to anyone I did not treat with respect. Larry
Hi Larry! I for one enjoy you very much! <3
The truest thing I can say to everyone-to all of you is, I Love YOU.
You missed “nothing”. Exchange the word nothing with – beauty, wonder, awe or God … and the sentence makes sense. It’s not about seeking – that’s an activity of the ego. The spiritual activity is to simply be; to make a space, to sweep away all our human “stuff” and leave a space of nothingness – that God will fill.
ET: “But because you were looking for something, you missed nothing
There is nothing to miss if you are not there.
12/14/08 ET Quote of the day: You would come to the end of the 6 days here and say “I was looking for this great spiritual experience, and somehow it didn’t happen. I was looking and looking and looking.”
But because you were looking for something, you missed nothing.
I get this and I don’t get it. I know what ET is saying to be true, yet part of me ‘doesn’t get it.’
I share this because a couple of months ago, I went to the Abbey of Gethsemani, a renowned monastery in New Haven, Kentucky ‘made famous’ by the late Thomas Merton.
I was looking, searching, waiting for ‘a great spiritualexperience’ as part of a 9 day private, silent retreat, and when I got there, I/my ego said, “Is this it?” Although faith led me to know that this place was extraordinary, I did not feel/experience this.
Perhaps I had not only expectations but set them too high.
And watching the film, “The Great Silence” I am learning “God,” Being, the Universe, whatever term you are comfortable with, speaks to us not through wind, thunder, earthquakes, and other big, loud, events but in silence, stillness, and whispers.
Peace, Blessings, and Happy Holidays to Everyone!
Jose
I think I may have found the six enemies:
sexual urge, anger, greed, temptation, ego and jealousy, found on shri-datta-swami.net.
This is pretty close to:
kama (desire), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha (delusion), mada (pride) and matsarya (jealousy). Found on /www.sssbpt.info.
For me [this ego] to BE, to be aware-to be awareness, is a great spiritual experience. Just to realize I am is incredible. Namaste
Has anyone ever considered instead of seeking a great spiritual experience, self realization, or enlightenment through a great teacher or a practice to instead give up, surrender. Because in the effort of seeking it, we may be pushing it away. Who wants the great experience. The ego, the mind. A spiritual high will just fatten the ego. Feel your need for the great spiritual experience. Surrender to your feelings. Peace
["Work is by the whole for the whole, activity is by oneself for oneself."
JVS: This is a great observation by Nisargadatta.]
I agree, Jordan. Going to have to sit with that one!
Work is by the whole for the whole, activity is by oneself for oneself
When we become fully present in the moment of any activity we open ourselves to the whole self. Our own presence can speak to us we have created an open space to allow this to happen. If we recive what is given we have completed the whole cycle and a tranference of energy has occurred.The energy is returned into consciousness via the chakras to be made available again.
If we are not present and the activity occurs the energy is wasted. A pause occurs- the cycle is broken. The essence of the activity is missed. The energy does go somewhere though but not back to the whole.
Where does it go?
This urge this person feels is the urge of the ego- it is to move. To move into a more comfortable experience. Into something that is temporary and away from something that could be permanent.
The urge of the inner self is to produce-produce enlightment. It is a fire that tranforms. The urge of the ego is to motivate left unchecked this fire consumes.
Larry – I’m starting to think along the same lines as you. I’ve always thought I should be “a seeker”. Instead I should perhaps just be a witness to what is. By seeking, I send a mental/thought path out ahead of me … and then I follow it. If I acheive stillness, I can stand in wonder at what appears – because it will be something not created by my thoughts.
Susan
From: “I think I may have found the six enemies:
sexual urge, anger, greed, temptation, ego and jealousy, found on shri-datta-swami.net.
This is pretty close to:
kama (desire), krodha (anger), lobha (greed), moha (delusion), mada”
Where do desire and fear come in? Such as:
desire = sexual urge, greed, temptation
fear = anger, jealousy.
No?
From: “Larry – I’m starting to think along the same lines as you. I’ve always thought I should be “a seeker”. Instead I should perhaps just be a witness to what is.”
In the second Costa Rica retreat Eckhart said we should shift from being spiritual seekers to spiritual finders.
Susan, I think Eckart would agree that you found it!
j
Today, when I was reading MB, I was thinking he is talking basic inner child psychology, [but from my own experience], a lot of subconscious energy was being used holding down my feelings of grief, anger, shame, etc. This energy, when freed up is available for spirituality and connection. So in that respect MB is a spiritual teacher, by teaching feeling work. He is a true spiritual psychologist like you Jordan. Before I knew of MB, I was doing similar work taught by John Bradshaw and others. Peace
From the six enemies I agree with Jordan. Desire and fear are the two main enemies that all the others emanate from.
Desire; Lust, Greed, envy, clinging, etc.
Fear; Anger, Hate, agression, violence, etc.
The Buddhists believe Ignorance is the main cause of Desire and Fear.
This Ignorance being the belief that I am a seperate someone when the truth is [We are all one].
Susan, I believe we our on the same page. ET ” because you were looking for something you missed nothing”. I believe ET sees looking for something and seeking as just about the same thing. He is not trying to show us something because [something] is an illusion. He is attempting to show us nothing or no-thing which is reality. No-thing is what everything emanates from. Thr infinite is no-thing. L
I realize I’ve written the last 4 posts. Please excuse me. J, I see what you mean when you say the three quotes by ET, MB, and Nis point to the same truth or idea. I also noticed Nis started one of his sentences with the words ” Desire and Fear. Sound familiar? So, who is running this web site? Jordan or God? Maybe there’s no difference.
Hello All,
I wanted to pose a question or questions. Do we all agree that having a still mind is the most important thing in this work and if so how do we go about cultivating a still mind.
I recognize that in some ways the teaching of the now has become about the now and the how is not really given in most teachings.
J-
Your group is a perfect support loop, so I rarely jump in here–out of deference, not for lack of support.
This comment today by Eckhart–regarding Ramana’s comments on the lack of thought- seems so central, so vital, it deserves just a bit of a nudge, perhaps a little spiritual watering for a plant in the full blossom of stillness.
As Presence, From Presence, from that which we are, no objects ever arise, there is only stillness. What appears as solid, as matter, subtle and gross, are nothing more than thoughts,ever so slight colorings, never anything in themselves.
Look around you right now, as the pure consciousness you are. Know that this is absolutely true.
There really is only the One. Only by ignoring ‘that which is’ do we bring forth the full symphony that we call life…..only because we really do cherish it, only because we really do demand it, only because we really do desire it.
Facing only Self, there is only the silence, the stillness. Eckhart is so gentle. He kindly reminding us that these ‘thuoghts”, all of them, as perceptions, sensations, images are but ‘mind stuff’, no more real than the tiger chasing us in our dreams.
Really, honest to goodness, Nothing ever happened.
Smile at the beauty of our playfulness.
I bow to Eckhart’s honesty.
By the way, in Vedanta tradition, the six enemies of Man (asked about earlier in this blog) are anger, lust (sexual urge), greed, temptation, ego and jealousy. The come up frequently in the Puranic tales and Bhagavad Gita. They are called the six enemies of mankind, because of their power to hold us back from the discovery of our True nature. They are called the shatripus.
Without boring everyone to death, The six are called the Ari-shadvarga. They are listed in Sanskrit as Kama, Krodha, Lobha,
Moha, Mada and Maathsarya.
Having thus listed them, it is often pointed out that they are all branches of the one tree and that tree has only one root:
The Belief in a Seperate Sense of Self.
The Ultimate illusion that drives all others.
In Chapter Fourteen of The Bhagavad gita, Krishna clearly instructs Arjuna that all liberation is revealed by cutting only this one base root: the belief in the seperate self.
From this, all else arises.
In the context on the comments of “six enemies,” in Christianity, there are the seven (7) capital sins, Anger, Pride, Envy, Avarice, Gluttony, Lust, and Sloth. Later, the Sufi Muslims “discovered” two additional ones: Deceit and Fear, for a total of nine (9). All nine personality types, ’spirits,’ ‘energies,’ including their redemptive qualities are summed and described in detail in a spiritual discernment tool called the Enneagram.
The Enneagram is one tool amongst many for discernment of the difference between good and eveil, because oftentimes what we call “good” is actually evil, and what we call “evil” is actually good. It is an ancient tool which dates back to the Christian Desert Fathers and Mothers; somehow, the Sufi Muslims got a hold of it, “discovered” and “added” “fear” and “deceit.” It used to be passed orally from spiritual master to student until most recently when a couple of people published books, and the “secret was out.”
Unfortunately, this has led to it becoming “cheapened,” and letting people to believe it is for self-help, selp-improvement, and a “parlor game” in short. Although there is a ton of books,conferences, workshops, and information, I trust teachers such as Richard Rohr, Russ Hudson, Suzanne Stabile, and a very few others.
Jordan et al:
Although I love, respect, and admire Eckhart Tolle (ET) for the consciousness and awareness he has “tapped” into and shared with the “world,” I have trouble, for lack of a better world, I don’t want to say, “trusting” and/or “believing” him when he talks about parenting, or how to raise children, when to my knowledge, he is not a parent. Or when he talks about women and their experience of their monthly menstrual flow, how they feel, don’t feel, etc. And now that I realize it, he is single (meaning not married nor has any children), white, educated, and male in a planet where a majority of the earth’s inhabitants are not. They are fathers, mothers, colored, poor, uneducated, incarcerated, etc.
Again, I share and speak from my ‘heart’ in the utmost, loving, respectful way. I love the man and what he says, I don’t know whether you can “hear me” and/or “feel me,” and/or anyone on this post for that matter.
Peace/Blessings,
Jose
Great posts today! It’s great to see this come alive.
Chris, Thanks for the six: anger, lust (sexual urge), greed, temptation, ego and jealousy. This must be what Nisargadatta was referring to because he is a Vedanta guy.
Jose, Thanks for the ‘trouble’ you’re expressing about ET’s expertise in woman, parenting and marriage. I have some of the same concerns – I think they’re valid to raise.
Larry, For all of us there is no difference. And there is.
Steve, we’ll have to come back to the still mind thing. Great question. Maybe others will check-in.
I wanted to comment on one of the 6 enimies – Sexual urge. The sexual urge is not an enemy. Without the sexual urge I think you find it very difficult to become enlightened. It is when the sexual urge is used for only temporary sensory gratification that it can become a bottomless pit. Sometimes this eastern teaching can be so abstract and lack true direction and substance. Without the sexual urge it would be hard to have the desire to create anything. We could just return to the formless wasteland. Remove the sexual urge and watch the labotomy it does to the spirit! Just because somebody has swami in front of there name does not make them a knower.
EO 955 237 139 US
I agree Steve.
The sexual urge needs to exist to continue the human species. On the other hand lust is the sexual urge out of control. Lust can lead to rape and even murder. We need to seperate lust from the normal sexual urge. Peace
Re; Having a still mind. I’m not sure if having a still mind is the most important part of this work but it certainly seems to be in the case of Gangaji. In her book [the Diamond in your Pocket] she speaks of her first meeting with her teacher H.W.L. Poonja [Papaji],a direct diciple of Ramana Maharshi. First he said “You are in the right place!” Then he said “Do nothing. Your whole problem is that you continue doing. Stop all your beliefs,all your searching, all your excuses,and see for yourself what is already and always here. Don’t move. Don’t move toward anything, and don’t move away from anything. In this instant, be still.” Gangaji; “He was directing me to stop all mental activity” “I was willing in that moment to stop following and believing in the thoughts beneath my doubt and terror.” It seems he did not tell her how to still her mind or stop following and believing in her thoughts. By what he said, she knew just how and what to do. She just did it.
Waking thoughts:
The questions Steve is raising are fine because they show interest and a desire for the Truth. At the same time, they have a tendency to engage the mind in more mind; which is interesting but maybe not so helpful in moving torwards Truth.
More helpful would be to find the discomfort within (the body) that is creating or driving the questions. Find the disomfort as an emotional feeling or as a body sensation. Once it is found, stay with it. Inquire into it. Ask: “What is being triggered within me?” “Why is this important to me?” “Am I really asking a question or am I making a statement in the guise of a question?” “When have I first had this feeling?” “Am I angry, afraid, grieving?” “If I get my answer, what will be different?”
Once you do that, report back.
Regarding the ‘problems’ about Eckharts references to things which he has no eartly experiences, I see that he is speaking from a ‘higher’ (or ‘deeper’, if you prefer) place and that he is pointing towards the Truth. He is not making proclamations such as, “This is how it is!” He is just inviting us to look in a different place to help us find out for ourselves what we are missing or not seeing. Again, sit with the discomfort that his words create. j
Nis: “Do not fight with what you take to be obstacles on your way.
Just be interested in them, observe, enquire. Let anything happen – good or bad.”
JVS: This is pointed to again and again. What makes it ‘good’ or ‘bad’ is thinking it should be different than it is.
Hello All
I admit I have “struggle” with this one. It doesn’t seem logical to me. If some of my forebears thought this, I would still be a slave, and/or unable to vote, forced to have children and give them up(again slavery), etc, etc. Obviously SOMEONE somewhere looked at the situation and, whether or not they thought it was ‘good’ or ‘bad’, decided/thought that it should be different than what it is. That something false or untrue (better word, maybe?) was going on (beliefs, etc) that was holding a situation in place. And they acted on it. This is where some of these ‘concepts’(I can’t think of a better term) confuse and anger me. Yes, that’s an emotion, I know. That if I was enslaved now that would be perfectly fine with these teachings (I don’t know what else to call them). And yes, it could be said that I/you/we are still enslaved (six enemies,etc) but it’s not in THAT way and I know there is a difference. A REAL difference between that and not being able to live/work/sit on a bus/keep my child/being worked to death.
Sorry that I’m not more articulate about it. It’s hard for me to express exactly what I mean.
Thanks for listening.
Namaste,
~MF
“…true renunciation is not so much the renunciation of worldly things.”
My feeling here as I’ve become more deeply surrendered to the Now (aka the creator, presence, stillness) and less identified with thought and emotion, is that the ultimate renunciation is that of yourself, which is comprised of thought and emotion.
It is about surrendering to the unknown, the vast space of the now, Presence…in ALL you do.
Its leting thoughts and feelings arise, but resting in the stillness, space, the now, the Divine that is always present beneath the fleeting experiences of life.
Rather than continuing to bow to your mind and emotions as your masters, you let Abiding Presence, the Creator, the Now, call you to action.
I no longer get my impulse to act from my thoughts or emotions…I move from a whisper of stillness…that divine whisper in each of us that comes from the One Source of us all.
It’s about tuning into a whisper and standing firm in presence when thought and emotion and life drama is screaming for your attention.
Love and Light to you all this holiday.
Traci
in response to mf above, i too have often struggled with the idea of accepting certain situations, especially when they felt extremely unfair.
what i’ve come to realize is that these teachings arent about non-action; they’re simply about taking action from a different place. From a place of peace, acceptance, and surrender, rather than resistance and egoic behavior.
its about realizing there is a cosmic intelligence and order to life on this planet that our tiny little minds cant grasp…so that even in our most difficult situations, there is an intelligence at work that we no longer fight with or resist.
has arguing with what is ever gotten us anywhere in the first place? ofcourse not.
so as eckhart says, either accept your current situation if it’s one you cannot change… or get up and change it…but dont exhaust your emotions or mind grappling with something you cant change….it only causes needless suffering.
so do we have to sit back and take everything that comes in our path that doesnt feel just to us? Ofcourse not.
if you’re a slave and being beaten, you accept the condition…you dont whine and complain and focus mentally and emotionally on it.. however you could decide to risk it all and escape, even at the punishment of death.
if you hate your job and your boss…you first accept the situation so as not to resist and cause more suffering to what is…but you can still start taking action to find another job…or maybe you decide you’re willing to risk it all and just get up leave!!
maybe (like me), you’re plagued with sometimes gripping emotions- fear, anxiety, sorrow- and i’ve come to understand fighting them does me NO good. the emotions rise up in me rather i want them to or not. so i accept them as part of life but i no longer let them take me over…i rest in presence, stillness, being and the knowledge it will pass.
hope this helps.
…one last thing then i promise to give the floor to others…but in answer to mf’s questions about how to quiet the mind…i think again the more we try to quiet our minds, the worse it can get…the key here is accepting what is…if your mind is running like crazy the ONLY thing to do is accept it and become the witness to it rather than becoming identified with it…dont make it a problem by judging or fighting it…the ego loves that…my focus each day is on living from a place of stillness and presence and letting thoughts and emotions come and go…no longer getting my cues from them…if i act it’s from stillness, not mental or emotional activity…some days ofcourse i get swept back into the drama…but with each moment comes a new chance to live from the NOW…blessings…
J, talking about feelings behind what some write on this web site, I’m realizing there are feelings behind all these posts I’m writing. It is becomming obvious I’m writing so many posts out of loneliness. I go to a psychologist once a week and feel why I isolate and hide in my apartment as much as I can. I have come to realize I’m afraid people might hurt me or hurt my feelings. It feels safer to hide. This is all comming from being put down and rejected on a daily basis as a child. I made a decision as a child it was safer to hide,but I am still doing it as an adult. I feel safe but extremely lonely. The large number of posts are comming from this loneliness. I have done quite a bit of feeling work, but this decision to hide I made as a child, is one of the hardest to turn around or get through. Peace
Larry,
Thanks for sharing.
Jordan
Hey Larry,
Right on- Loneliness is a big one for me too. I imagine it’s another one of those totally awesome way fun rights of passage. Loneliness has increased my own energy and my own personal will. It has empowered my voice and intuition.
I’ve heard it said that, for humans, the only fear greater than the fear of death is fear of rejection by our peers. If fear is the key, then facing the fear of rejection (or whatever one can call it) must certainly be a door worth opening.
I’m glad you brought this up, because today I had an experience that taught me to remember: “No looking for recognition- recognize myself.” I have no doubt (especially after reading Michael Brown’s New Year Letter!) that as far as all these “looking for love outside ourselves” behaviors… that it is totally go-time to look them in the eye.
Best wishes!
Shannon
One thing about children is they are waiting to be told and shown what their qualities are. If they are constantly rejected by their caretakers or others they assume [I am rejectable, in my case, I am disgusting],If their caretakers say disappear,I dont want to see you,they assume [I dont have the right to exist]. If they are not loved or given unconditional love, they assume, [I am unlovable]. All this needs to be undone if one is to become whole. Larry
Yeah.
An early Christian desert ascetic, Antony, asked a friend to please insult a rock, to kick it, to throw it, spit on it, etc. The friend did so. When he finished, Antony asked, “How did the rock react?” The friend said, “It didn’t. It remained the same.” Antony said, “So must you refine yourself so that nothing at all insults you.”
“I feel safe but extremely lonely.”
This is a good place to be. Feeling the energy within the spectrum of ‘lonely’ is a movement in the right direction.
The word ‘lonely’ is the label for a band-width of energy that includes your version of the ‘feeling’ ‘lonely.’ Allowing oneself to feel that energy as ‘energy’ (whatever that means – ‘aliveness in the body’, the ‘inner body’, etc) and dropping the label ‘lonely’ offers the opportunity to go through the portal being shown.
=======
“All this needs to be undone if one is to become whole.”
Beware that this is a ‘belief’ and, as such, is a ‘relative’ truth. Relative truths are by definition partial truths and, therefore, are never %100 true. Find the .9999 % that is not true and feel that. Without condition, of course.
In other words, find the feeling that supports the belief that, “Nothing needs to be undone to become whole.” It may be a thread of energy but it’s there. See what it needs or wants. j
Nis: “Do not fight with what you take to be obstacles on your way.
Just be interested in them, observe, enquire. Let anything happen – good or bad.”
JVS: This is pointed to again and again. What makes it ‘good’ or ‘bad’ is thinking it should be different than it is.
Hello All
I admit I have “struggle” with this one. It doesn’t seem logical to me. If some of my forebears thought this, I would still be a slave, and/or unable to vote, forced to have children and give them up(again slavery), etc, etc. Obviously SOMEONE somewhere looked at the situation and, whether or not they thought it was ‘good’ or ‘bad’, decided/thought that it should be different than what it is. That something false or untrue (better word, maybe?) was going on (beliefs, etc) that was holding a situation in place. And they acted on it. This is where some of these ‘concepts’(I can’t think of a better term) confuse and anger me. Yes, that’s an emotion, I know. That if I was enslaved now that would be perfectly fine with these teachings (I don’t know what else to call them). And yes, it could be said that I/you/we are still enslaved (six enemies,etc) but it’s not in THAT way and I know there is a difference. A REAL difference between that and not being able to live/work/sit on a bus/keep my child/being worked to death.
=
That was a good question and deserves an answer, which Traci gave in her second post.
I would only emphasize the clarification that ‘acceptance’ means that I may find that I have to do something I don’t want to do. Acceptance may mean taking action in an ‘apparently’ negative direction.
The difference is the place we take action from, which Traci said.
The other thing is that we assume that we’re (the world or my place in it) is in a better place than it would have been had our forefathers not seen the need for change, through non-acceptance, and then took action to change it.
That may not be true.
“The difference is the place we take action from” reminded me of something Mother Theresa said. I dont know if this is the exact quote but it’s close.”If I was invited to an anti-war [substitute anti-slavery] rally, I would’nt go. But if I was invited to a peace [substitute freedom for all] rally, I would go.
Thanks to everyone who joined the conference Presence call tonight. When I got off the call it was just amazing. Something happens. I know I couldn’t sit with the phone to my ear for an hour and get there by myself. Thanks for sharing in the gift of Presence. And it’s here Now. Jordan
Waking thoughts:
From the call yesterday evening, we talked about getting in touch with the inner body; feeling that full inner aliveness and then noticing the change as we open our eyes. It seems like that as the eyes are opening there is a lot of information – visual noise – coming in through the eyes and so the feelings in the body start to change in reaction to it. Another way to look at it is that the awareness that is focused in the ‘inner body’ is actually moving out into the visual noise that we call the surroundings – the chair, the walls, whatever is in the room.
This is another case of everything is backwards. Instead of visual information coming in, it is awareness moving out.
What is happening then is that the awareness, as it moves out, is ‘merging’ with the objects that it sees or comes in contact with. That movement is the Self merging with the object another part of the Self. This can be sensed or experienced.
We can play with this such that we can begin to open our eyes slowly and notice the shift of feelings within, and keep our interest or awareness on the shifting feelings. Practice this over time. Close the eyes, connect with the inner body and then open the eyes slowly feeling the changes in feelings in the body as you do that. When I was practicing doing this, I would even use my fingers to raise my eyelids. This is because I sensed that the muscles around the eyes were conditioned as part of the shift in feelings; and so just activating them to open the eyes caused an habitual shift in feelings. This, in turn, is a movement of awareness out of the inner body into the ‘apparent’ world.
Do this enough and you’ll notice that the feelings in the body will begin not to change. That is, the inner awareness is staying within the field of the inner body. Now, as you hold your awareness on the inner body, and as you look around, you see the objects and notice that the awareness is not merging into them.
That is an interesting perspective.
Also, at some point, you begin to realize that the body is just another one of those objects.
And though this may seem like I’m describing ‘separation’ it is really an experience of ‘Oneness.’ j
Greeting All,
In an earlier posting Larry had written”…all this (emotional imprinting) needs to be undone if one is to become whole.”
I too had a tumultuous childhood and I think due in part to this fact, I have come to identify quite strongly with some very crippling beliefs and emotional patterns.
But what I’ve come to realize through these teachings is that I dont have to analyze my childhood or all my emotional pain in order to overcome it and become whole. That’s what the mind and emotions want you to think b/c the more you try and analyze them, the easier it is for them to take you over again and again as you struggle to control and dismantle them with your mind…the very instrument holding you down in the first place!
All that we have to do is drop out of the mental body and it’s incessant desire to want to “figure things out” and make the power of Now, Presence, the Divine, our resting place. The place where logic is no longer worshipped and our past pain no longer exists so it certainly doesnt need to be analyzed.
The place where, when crippling beliefs and emotions try to reak havoc on me, I firmly stand in Presence, accepting they have come to visit and I cannot control that fact, but also refusing further identification with those false beliefs and emotions so that they no longer take me over and lead me into reactionary, egoic behavior.
Some days it’s harder for me to dis-identify with my pain than others, but with the “elixir of discipline” as mb puts it, the practice of “being”,or resting in stillness, or accessing the power of now, (whatever term you want to use!)becomes easier and easier.
But for me it has taken great effort to stand in presence rather than identify with my thoughts and emotions, because this is how I’ve lived for so long and they are strong! So I think sometimes it needs to be stressed more in the teachings that moving into stillness at first requires some effort on one’s part.
And when I fail to rest in presence and let my mind or emotions take me over, the ego often tells me that the presence process doesnt work, that I’m a failure, that I need to “figure it out” mentally…but I’ve come to realize that this too is the ego trying to get me to identify myself as victim…it’s actually become comical to me at times when this has happened now that I can observe this taking place!
Rather than make myself victim and put myself down for a simple mis-step, I again drop out of the mental, re-affirm to myself to rest in Presence and then when powerful old emotions, beliefs or thoughts come to visit me, rather than identify and reincarnate, I stand firm in Presence and the knowledge they will pass…and it feels so GREAT when I accomplish this so it keeps me going and practicing the power of now!
Blessings to all on this spiritual journey…We are true peaceful warriors who are breaking old restrictive habits and patterns not with resistance, suppression, or mental reckoning (which never works) but with simple being and resting in Presence.
Namaste.
I just wanted to clarify one thing, [undone] was the wrong word to use. But even using that word does not imply [analyzing or trying to figure something out mentally.] It is said understanding it is the boobie prize. What I meant was all this needs to be felt to integrate it. Or to integrate it, it needs to be felt. These may sound like beliefs but in truth I dont know anything for sure. Peace
Thanks to all of you who have contributed to this blog. I completed the PP on nov. 19, have taken the recomended “break” and will begin my second journey through on Jan 1 2009. I’m very grateful to ET, MB, many others who have contributed to my “awakening” and now each of you. I read all the dec post today and found wisdom and understanding in every one. May we all just give up (sure ender) trying to get it “right” and be content with being perfect.
I promised MB that I would not go around waking people up before they are rested and awaken in their own timing, that has left me without a place, sometimes, to share about how excited I am to have this simple process of presence and how much I have gained from it. Perhaps I will be able to do that here once in a while. Thanks again.
I apologize Larry for mis-interpreting. There was no need to even include your comment; your comment had just fueled a realization that I had wanted to share w/anyone else who, like myself, might be struggling with some very strong emotional traumas.
And that realization, for me, was that analyzing or doing anything about my pain was unnecessary…and what a relief that was to me so I wanted to share it with others!
All that is required is discipline to stand firm in presence and let those emotions and thoughts come and go.
Standing firm in presence rather than being reincarnated by every strong thought or emotion can be difficult at times for me; however I’ve noticed that it has become easier with practice and feels so freeing when I accomplish it!
I wanted to share that with the group so we could rally eachother on!
May we all feel complete, at peace, and full of love!
Hello James! Enjoyed your post.
Hello Shannon, Thank you!
I had one of those drives home from work this afternoon with lots of energy in motion, evidenced by water running from my eyes. It’s not so much that it’s an uncommon experience for me since the PP, what I want to say is that it’s such a victory to not attach a story to the experience. Apparently the entertainment value of doing that for me has run it’s course, I can’t say that I’m not tempted, and I am a great “story teller”, there’s just no juice there anymore. On the other hand the feeling of freedom that’s there on the other side of just allowing that energy to move through is sweet indeed!
Again, I’m grateful to have found this blog and to be able to express what I just did into a listening that can “get” it.
Also Traci your last post, prompted by Larry was valuable to me, thank you all.
eckhart is in phoenix this spring. is anyone planning on attending?
larry, regarding any word, all words are “wrong”… and all words are “right”. it’s a matter of how it’s taken by the hearer. if true hearing happens, it doesn’t matter what word is used. besides, if one thinks long enough about any word in any application, doubt arises. it’s the nature of the (dualistic) mind.
as far as “undone”, i think it is a fair description (as good as any other) of the disidentification of consciousness from thought/form. one sees that the past does not exist except as a thought in the head to which one has grown attached to – identified with. when the seeing is true-clear, the attachment is undone. in the case of painful/traumatic experiences, it is perhaps more difficult to see that we have become identified with them and cling to them as a part of “who i am”.
namaste!
The posts for this month have all been great and are in the spirit of what this blog is about.
There has been deep personal sharing. Introspection. Sharing from experience without advice giving. Acknowleging the challenges with being ‘real.’ Drawing from and building on the teachings of MB and ET.
Somehow it feels like you’re all doing my job for me. I don’t know what that’s about really; but I like it.
Happy Holidays,
Love Jrdn
I have noticed whether I write it or not I’m always feeling the need to justify, defend, affirm, or get validation for my point of view, my position and for a sense of who I am. I see there is still work to be done. Namaste
I know what you mean, Larry! In fact I’ve been noticing that in myself too! I finish most things I say with a “Know what I mean?” Maybe I should preface everything I write with a “For the record, I am a little uneasy about myself, and I want you to validate me.” Know what I mean? ;D
Traci, James, and Patrick reading what you wrote- all together and individually the posts strike me to be that “letting go” that’s talked about. In my life now, my family is all of a sudden turning into something I had not expected- the people I thought I “knew” are really much bigger than I gave them credit for- and now I’m finding myself at that line that says, “Time to let go of the stories you have about them or it’ll only hurt worse.” I have all these feelings of agonizing regret and a kind of melting heart feeling and anger and little flecks of joy. ANd lots of confusion! Thanks for reminding me not to buy into any of the ideas I have.
Jordan thanks so much for making this forum I really enjoy my visits here. And thank you- happy new year to you too!
Love,
Shannon
Jordan, thank you for this place to come together as “presence” community.
I’m going to suggest that having you feel like we all are doing you job for you, is “getting your job done”.
I’m beginning to be concious of any “in order to” in regard to what I say, or write here. Am I still trying to change, fix, or improve something, rather than just be with it. I noticed after I wrote what I did about feelings, and tears flowing that the energy shifted, ie I felt better. Did I sedate or avoid in that way?
fortunately a few breaths into my bath the integration continued, then I get to ask myself whether or not I’m “indulging” the sadness, now I notice my mind is again in charge. Such fun!!
Greetings to all,
I’m a reader of ET, MB and of course the Daily Now. I’m half way through the Presence Process and I’m getting scared. Scared that I’ll get myself in a “dangerous” place, with no guidance. I have an anxiety disorder with OCD, and I’m currently undergoing a very painful breakup with a woman (one in a long series of women who end up rejecting me). I’m wondering how I can use this painful opportunity to begin to resolve old issues. In the 12/31/08 Daily Now when bridging MB’s thoughts, you referred to “facing our discomfort (and) not trying to avoid the discomfort or manipulating ourselves or others to make it better”. I’m not sure how to approach this. I mostly feel anxious and depressed. It seems so natural to want to make myself feel better and get on with it. I want to be able to accept my pain with no resistance, but I’m not sure how.
Thanks,
Tom
Tom,
Sounds like you’re on a good path, MB, ET and The Daily Now. Your concerns are valid and questions seem sincere and thanks for joining our forum.
A few observations:
“Scared that I’ll get myself in a “dangerous” place, with no guidance.” Depending on what you mean by ‘dangerous place’ this blog probably wouldn’t be an appropriate place to guide you in that.
“I’m wondering how I can use this painful opportunity to begin to resolve old issues.” You’re invited to share your experiences that arise for you as you ‘feel’ into the painfulness that is arising. Be open to the possibility that nothing will be resolved.
“I’m not sure how to approach this. I mostly feel anxious and depressed.” That’s good. What comes up for you as you feel that?
“It seems so natural to want to make myself feel better and get on with it.” That’s true, it does seem ‘natural’- definitely it is what we have all learned to do.
“I want to be able to accept my pain with no resistance, but I’m not sure how.” You won’t be able to ‘accept the pain with no resistance’. Feel the pain and the resistance.
See if you can feel deeper into your experience and let us know how it goes.
Tom, you said you have OCD. I had OCD. It was for me, a great opportunity to feel the feeling [usually fear] I was trying to cover up with obsessive-compulsive thoughts, but especially the ritualistic performance of certain acts. When you have OCD the fear is so close. The acts were magical ways to controll the fear. What I did was to simply refuse to perform the acts. I allowed myself to feel the fear. It was the fear of my own death. It took some courage but I’m glad I did it. I no longer have OCD and all the fear behind it. Peace