You are invited to share your thoughts, feelings, observations related to teaching in The Daily Now and nondual awareness. Thanks to all who participate. This is a very alive, open space.
Quotes from Eckhart Tolle and random thoughts on EMDR & Nondual Wisdom
You are invited to share your thoughts, feelings, observations related to teaching in The Daily Now and nondual awareness. Thanks to all who participate. This is a very alive, open space.
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those are my footprints across the new snow
Same urge to post first for month of March
Overwhelming ego desire to make my mark first
although unfortunately I have nothing further to contribute to today’s reflection.
could this in some strange way be a contribution?
A Pome by me
If I don’t love
I slowly wither
Then die.
I know many deaths
Some full, some in part.
I stand at the Abyss
And turn shuddering away
I stand at the Abyss
And jump with abandon
I stand at the Abyss
And gaze eyes open at Shimmering Midnight.
But no Abyss
However yawning and filled with tooth
Can shred and rend
Like the savaging
Of my Abandoned Heart.
Yet onward I must, will go
Nothing else can satisfy.
I work it like a puzzle
The pieces askew
I throw it all in the Roaring Flames
Consume me
Then I Become
What I AM
The Lion Heart
Ricky yesterday (2/28/09)
not so long ago and far away
hi all
re the last few comments: there is a great movie ‘man on wire’, (that just won the best documentary oscar) about the french guy who walked a tightrope between the twin towers in nyc in the late 70s — the film’s subject and subject matter addresses the issue that is being discussed here, i.e. expressing vs suppressing vs containing emotions/feelings…specifically the film draws, literally and figuratively, the ‘fine line’ that everyone in life seems to tread whether we like (or understand)it or not, and challenges directly and indirectly, what is considered real and what is illusion by engaging us in a story about an impossible dream that came true…its such an amazing film! we had to watch it twice (which i hardly ever do for a doc!)
namaste
~mf
Oh cool- thanks mf!
Jordan, I really liked your last post of Feb. Since I have gotten into trouble by feeling and expressing feelings as they happened in public, I want to know more about this. I am not sure what the difference is between suppressing and containing feelings/emotions. Could you be more specific about that? To me, it feels like the body naturally wants to express feelings as they are felt.
“All that rises within is called to this empty field. You are the empty field and the things that rise and dance in you are simply more sweet ones coming for your blessing. Nothing personal about them. They are not about your failings. They are not even about your childhood. And to call it acceptance would be to deny the riches of emptiness. We’re talking about flat out adoration. You bring your hairiest, ugliest, loudest, cursing beggars here. The tidy ones, the nasty ones. All welcome.” –jeannie zandi
Something really touched me when I read this for the hundredth time today. It suddenly dawned on me that while I’ve come to a point where I’ve acknowledged my emotional pain and no longer blame others for it– I have NOT come to a place of love and forgiveness. I analyze it. I fight it. I mentally struggle to understand WHY I seem to carry so much emotional pain while others do not. I realize now that this unwillingness to forgive and love myself NOW (flaws and all) is holding me back from experiencing myself as love…As the one thing I’ve been searching for my entire life!
Something keeps telling me that I cant love myself til I figure this problem out– til I find a cure– til I rid myself of this nasty emotional poison that makes me unlovable and has caused me to say and act such horrible things! But how do I rid myself of this nasty pain? I’ve tried it all! Every mental strategy in the book. Even physical. I’ve moved jobs, lovers, cities….nope, still here!!!!
Only one thing I haven’t tried it seems…to drop every single struggle with myself and love each and every sensation that comes to visit my being. My body shakes with fear… “This cant be right,” it says, “I shouldnt love an ugly part of my being, I should dispell it or it may get worse! ….But how do I dispel of a feeling over which I have no control?!…Something that keeps coming to visit no matter what I’ve tried to do?!”
Love. Unconditional. Accepting. Forgiving.
Does love truly conquer all? It’s worth a try.
Traci, what about feeling every emotional pain as it comes to you. I dont mean as soon as you feel the pain, you do some mental strategy or you change lovers or change jobs or move. Wherever you go, the pain will follow you, because the pain is within you.
Listen to what MB and Jordan have to say about this. Peace and love to and for you.
The way it happened in this life is I did feeling work before I ever got into the spiritual. One led to the other. One of the main ways I experience love now is by looking at me. Usually most people look outward, what seems to be happening outside of them, so it takes some effort to bring your awareness to look inward at you. So I the ego with all it’s imperfections looks at I the ego with all it’s imperfections. It is perhaps after doing this for a while I begin to experience this great incredible Love for what is-for God the beloved. When I feel this Love for the beloved I feel like I am Love. Not that I love Larry, but that I am Love, Peace, Bliss. Thats who and what you are Traci. Thats who everyone is.
I found the PP and this blog through a practice called Radical Honesty, a book and workshop by Brad Blanton. Not so long ago, my self-supression killed me, literally. I had to be shocked back to life. Through these practices, I have never felt freer. The context out of which I live is Joy, though the immediate experience may be tears, anger, grief. I am now willing to “live out loud” and take the consequences, which, amazingly, lead to a greater and greater experience of Joy. I am filled with gratitude. My Inner Presence is at hand…
Thank you all very much, this is indeed a rich conversation!
I completely agree with you Larry. What I am saying is I realize now that until I embrace each and every emotion that comes to visit me…sit with them willingly rather than fight or react outward, to hold their hand, and practice giving them the love that I am, I will continue to struggle.
It is only through accepting them and transmuting them by your love that Presence can come into your life.
I think I thought acknowledging them was enough…but I’m realizing every time I mentally struggle w/them or try to figure them out, I am resisting them.
It’s pointless to grapple with WHAT is.
There is an element of containment mixed with love and acceptance here that is sometimes hard to grasp.
Being with and loving and forgiving yourself is different from letting each emotion take you over and pretend to be you.
You hold their hand, but you dont let them lead you to reactive action.
It’s a fine line and one I find is difficult to walk, but my heart says this is the only thing worth practicing that will bring my mind/body peace.
Blessings.
Yes right on am enjoying this too- Thank you Tracy, Larry, James, Rick.
That Nis. water and honey analogy is AWESOME! Thank you, Jordan.
I just started reading the Presence Process and am almost at the part where I’ll start doing the actual work. I’ve heard that people who’ve used it have found it to be very beneficial. I have one question(maybe it’s a reservation) but don’t know how to word it. Well, here goes. It seems to me that whatever I focus on I get more of. Is this a system where I’m constantly focusing on the parts of myself that are a distortion and I really will never get it done? Of course, now the thought that comes is, “Yes. You will never get it done. If you were done you’d be done(dead, cycle off, pass on).” Still, any thoughts would be appreciated.
Hi Elizabeth!
Things may get worse before the get worse. Many people report they do. Not my experience, tho’. As MB says, it’s not about feeling better, but getting better at feeling. Humans have a full range of emotions for a purpose, and suppression weakens a needed emotional muscle. He also talks about getting to a context of Joy. With Joy as the background, the foreground may include anger, sadness, happiness, etc. This has proved to be true for me. For the PP, Radical Honesty, and my friend and teacher Billy I am so so grateful…
Namaste (or, as I prefer, Mynasty)
Rick T
What is interesting to me is every feeling therapy I did in the past 15 years all encouraged me to not only feel the feeling/emotion but to loose control so the body would express the feeling/emotion much like a 3 year old child would. So that was fine while I was in the therapy room. The therapies consisted of Primal therapy (you know the primal scream), Radix emotional release therapy and some of Brashaws inner child work. This work caused me to be so open that I would start crying at the drop of a hat. I once or more stated thinking about my grandfather who died and who I loved more than anyone in the world. While I was driving I started thinking of him. Soon I was crying so hard I had to pull over. As I was crying intensely, I was saying I love you Grampa, goodbye, over and over. One of the major things I was taught was never act out in violence toward another. But I did get arrested once by yelling in anger on a street coner. After all is said and done I know this work helped me more than I can say. Perhaps what MB and Jordan are teaching is even better. Peace
Hi Larry—
For me, what MB teaches puts me in touch w/ those same emotions, but in private (I’m starting week 10 of my 1st go-around.) When you explore PP, I think the difference will be evident. With Radical Honesty, I release suppression directly and in the moment. I am responsible for the outcome, in that I stick with it (the exchange, whatever) until breakthrough. Usually (so far always)the result is forgiveness and greater intimacy. And, for me, greater access to my senses and feelings—bodily and emotionally. The Now is accessible, not just intellectual (which was where I used to live.)
I do not know what JS practices except thru’ inference from this site, but I hear EMDR is effective and deep.
RAT
I wanted to share Jeannie’s response to my previous post. She is so amazing at pointing to the truth.
“Well who loves and what forgives? Where does that come from? A separate self? Love and forgiveness are concepts. Only the context of emptiness can allow real love and forgiveness to flow. Emptiness is naturally loving and forgiving – it just IS allowing itself. We can’t do that as separate selves. So yes, no struggle mentally, just dropping into the sensation of it and being with it – when YOU get out of the way (i.e. neither struggling nor trying to be loving) but just ARE, then emptiness meets whatever it is and it is deeply allowed and touched.
Yes, it does feel icky! That’s why we ran away from those feelings in the first place and set up a separate self that might be able to outrun the ick. Sadly, it doesn’t work!
So just simply drop into your body and the sensation of whatever it is – I guarantee it’s never as bad as hanging out in the mind level of it.
LOVELOVELOVE
J”
I wanted to respond to Larrys request for more about ‘containing’ feelings.
It is a fairly new concept for me, too.
MB used the story of Christ and the Crucifixtion: When judged, Christ was in fear; when being mocked by the crowd on the way to the cross he was angry; and when on the cross he was in grief.
But did it show?
No.
He was ‘containing’ the feelings.
Do that. That’s it.
Interestingly, I got the wording ‘burn with the feelings’ from Michael Regan and Jeannie Zandi, which is another way to describe containing.
I guess you could ask yourself if ‘expressing’ the feelings in the form of primal scream therapy helped. It probably did, actually, but it’s just that there was more to do.
Traci’s post above points to a bigger more direct concern, which is, ‘is there the belief that we need to get rid of anything, or resolve or do anything to become free?’
ET says, it’s here Now.
So, obviously, we’re missing the point, or true spirituality, or nondual or nothingness.
I know I contribute to the ‘madness’ of creating a path of resolving feelings with containing, or EMDR or whatever it is.
I’m okay with the discussion, in fact, I like the discussion and think it is helpful but I would have to say that Jeannie’s comments point directly to the truth.
Maybe what we’re doing here is talking about the path, and no path.
I wrestle with the idea that there may be a ‘practical’ means of feeling less miserable in the conditioned world and a ‘nondual’ means of being. Being in being. It’s ‘not’ that it is blissful, or any ‘feeling’ you can identify – it’s the container or awareness in which everything is appearing.
It must me that one doesn’t precede the other – they’re different paradigms.
(Regarding ‘radical honesty.’ There is something about it that doesn’t resonate with me. Maybe the name. Don’t know. Seems like I need to learn more about it.)
I just read a quote by Adyashanti which seemed to be relevant to this discussion: “Just for a moment let yourself be here. Let yourself stop becomming more or better or different.”
There is one thing that seems obvious to me. I’m not judging whether it is right or wrong-good or bad. When we suppress feelings, contain feelings, or burn with the feelings, we are using a skill that a three year old has not yet developed. A three year old child can not suppress or contain feelings. Just food for thought.
Love the posts, Larry and all—
I heard somewhere “Trying is lying.” Another form of resistance and suppression. And “What you resist persists.” I favor surrender. What is is. “Let It Be.” Or, as Popeye says “I yam what I yam” to which I add “Yeah, and pass the goddamn spinach.”
As a Recovering Suppressive (and Alcoholic, truth be known), another part of my practice (along w/PP and RH) is AA. At first, AA was a duty. I thought I “should.” Then my Inner Presence guided me to my Home Group (it’s helping me ((Yeah, I know!))find my way Home.) The miracle (miracles don’t exist) of this group is the openness, vulnerability, and direct speaking of all of us. I laugh, I cry, I be present. I am very, very grateful. Since most of human communication is non-verbal, I learn by Osmosis from those who have or currently are Walking through the Valley of the Shadow of Death. My contribution, my Service (and all our Service is unique) is that I have Died. And, no, I didn’t have one of those Grand Experiences. For me, it was “I died, and all I got was this lousy hospital bill!” But I am Born Again. I have all the old thoughts, feelings, opinions, etc., etc. But their glue is gone. They just kinda’ fall away with little or no effort on my part. I am so so grateful and Joyous (mostly.) So in AA, I can say “If you’re afraid to walk through the Valley of the Shadow, take my hand. I’ve been there. We’ll walk together.”
I am aware that I say “I” and “me” alot. Just so you know…
And JS, Radical Honesty is not brutal honesty. It’s more that those who have always been classically honest still lie by omission, withholding. We presume that others, particularly loved ones, will be “hurt.” Well, as the TV show “Lie to Me” (and The Mentalist) demonstrates, we can’t lie. At some level, they know anyway. They certainly aren’t as consciously aware as the principal protagonist (see, I can talk good in a pinch!), but, at some level, everybody knows. Notice how you feel in your body when someone lies to you?
Anyway, I’ve gotten so much out of RH that I told Brad that I am going to become a Trainer. I think the world needs us. At least, I know I do.
With all the Love I know how to give
Rick Tate
Hi Elizabeth, If you are still reading I’d like to address your question. Your presence Process will be unique to you, so from here no one can really say how it will be for you. I am at the tenth session of the second time through and am very pleased with the results. I could try to describe what I mean by that and would not do justice to what I have gained….I am free.
Please don’t let your intention to enter the Process be ‘enter-feared-with’ by what you are reading in this blog. Begin when you’re ready and do the breathing, presence activateing statements, and perceptual tools commitedly….I predict that you will also be pleased with the result..
Journey on then…
I, too, struggled with “radical honesty”. Then this week one of my yoga teachers spoke of “ahimsha” (non-harming). He was staying always speak the truth, only in a non-harming way. That seemed to help. He went on to say “not even to say something nice, if it’s untrue, just stick to not saying truths which would hurt someone. I like that!
I love your website. It’s packed with so much good stuff. Sometimes I think/feel, if I just pick any randome paragraph and really get it, that’s all it will take to wake up completely. Just any one sentence from the whole page, if it goes all the way in deep, it will bring home right here. No need for all the books, dvds, cds, workshops, etc. Just any of the one liners!!!
Thank you all for your input. I keep reading what James Francis wrote, “I am free.” How beautiful. How helpful to hear that. I don’t know what my experience will be, but I know that I want to live more authentically and free. I feel that I’m mostly there. Also, Celeste’s description of “ahimsha”….LOVED that. Thank you all and thank you, Jordan, for the Daily Now. You are so appreciated.
The words “Radical Honesty” seems to (hereby announcing that an opinions is to follow!) reactivate a few of you guys. Just noticing…
As one of the 3 base pillars of my personal pyramid of power (good one, huh!), the Big Book of AA quotes Herbert Spencer:
, ed. comment) in everlasting ignorance—that principle is contempt prior to investigation.” Informed contempt may be had by googleing the Radical Honesty website (which some cussed soul sabotaged and is currently being reconstructed.)
“There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man (or gal,
As is obvious, I am deeply involved in and committed to RH. I promote it as much as possible, it serves me, I serve it. Should U want 2 no mor, I can be reached @ r.tate49@yahoo.com or 512 826-0189. I’ll say no more about it in this forum, except as it emerges in the natural flow of conversation…
Lovin’ ya’ll the best I know how,
RickyRAT
That crucifixion metaphor is so helpful. Jesus is nailed down to giving the world a full embrace- it’s like a hug posture, and at the same time, fatal torture.
James, when you say ‘I am free’, what’s that mean?
with thanks,
Shannon
Hi Shannon,
When I wrote “I am free” it was as a way of summing up how pleased I am with having done the journey of the PP, now for the second time. I am free from the lifelong struggle of trying to “do” life right to be loved. I am free from a story believed for many years that I was alone, different, not as good as and abandoned (repeatedly). I am free from believeing that that which is not even real, and therefore constantly changeing, is what is important in life. I am free from the veil of illusion that says that we are seperate and not one presence. I am free to live in love instead of “struggling for love in all the wrong places” I am free indeed! Thanks for asking….
Appreciate, James. Thank you
MB ” The theme of all responsive behavior is personal responsibility” There seems to be a level where we are personal seperate selves and we make personal choices and responses. That is the level MB is talking about. But what I experience is a higher level where there are no personal seperate selves that are not doing anything and have no free will simply because they don’t exist. There is no-one but God and God makes all the choices and responses.
Freedom 2 me. I am a Noticing Being. Nothing is shunned, ignored. All is celebrated (unless it’s not, then just notice that)—anger, rage, grief, sorrow, happiness, etc. etc.
I remember a girl at a Landmark event (current incarnation of EST) bemoaning that “I want to Be Present” like she was before. It is impossible to Be Present like U were before. U can only be present to how U R Now. To get There, the only choice is to start where U R. IM. UR. Wanna’ B together?
JS—Thanks for the Spititualteachers.org link. I wonder, like the site’s owner, why Eckhert charges so much. At this point, I can’t afford to be in his presence.
That’s something I truly appreciate about Michael (PP). He gives so much away on his site. I’ve bought lots of his stuff on Namaste, but I can read and view so much 4 free. And he’ll write U back if U e-mail. Usually very succinct, but always a response. He is really talented is saying a lot in a few words or symbols. Being a wordsmith, I really enjoy playing with him.
Well, ya’ll have a day!
rickyRAT
Thanks rick,
I found the same thing about MB. He actually seems to be trying to give away everything he has as soon as possible. interesting guy.
Also Ezra on San Diego Zen Center site has really good talks.
W
Jordan, thanks for the article on Fenner. I’ve experienced the same thing on the Presence Conference calls! It’s the same being silent with someone on the phone and the group seems to expand that. At one point it did feel like the room I was in was just sort of hanging there in nothingness. There also seemed like no separation between the walls and the outside. Both the “real” walls of the apartment and me :O)
As far as spiritualteachers.org and ET it is possible for someone to teach truths that one is not fully able to live. I have no Idea what it’s like being the personality of ET but I am willing to read and listen to ET’s Ideas as long as It does’nt cost too much $$$.
From the beginning of my reading of the Presence Process I was struck by Michael Brown’s generousity with his wisdom. “not for sale!” seems to be his view and it’s an authentic view in my experience, and he has integrity about it. I have had great value from every word written and posted at no cost on his site http://www.thepresenceportal.com for those who have not gone there I recommend it. In his blog “living in Aberdeen” there are a couple of things he’s posted in regard to what we call exchange, or money. He suggests that we might dtart to consider dealing in “the currency of appreciation”, it’s some very good stuff.
Interesting that I’m writing this now as my Presence Activateing statement for this final week of my PP is, ” I appreciate myself”. Cool, I’ll start right here!
A very interesting site I came across when I googled “Advaita” is under the heading “The Dangers of Pseudo-Advaita.” Since Advaita is so abstract and nebulous, I think it’s relatively easy to fake enlightenment, or assume full (?) enlightenment from a partial realization. See Bubba Free John or one of his many nom-de-whatevers, or Osho who assigned sex partners among his followers, to say nothing of the 32 Rolls Royces, or the attempted murder charges leveled @ his successor… Kinda’ makes U wonder, U think?
Seeker to Hot Dog Vendor—”Make me One with Everything.”
rickyRAT
Oh, here’s a pome I wrote my goo-rue:
The Pope of OKC
Now I know
How to become You
I follow my Heart into your chest
I see as you see
I hear as you hear
I feel as you feel.
I fall not in obeisance at your Lotus Feet.
You are my Brother, my Friend
You stand in My Place
Until I am ready
You fly lead in the flock
Until another takes your place
You stand in the fire
Until I am ready to be consumed.
I chose to miss my Beloved
He had to die before I came
For worship not must I.
You are One and The Same
This I know
This I love
You are You
And I am I
You are Me
I am You.
Greater Love hath no Man.
Ricky
Here and Now
3/1/09
Bye, Now
Wow! Thank you, Ricky!
Hi All:
hope you are well. Although I do not fully understand “why” it’s been a rough week emotionally ~ sense of depression or something. It’s been four months since I’ve been laid-off from a real cool job. Currently working through the “Flower Exercises” from Dick Bolle’s “What Color Is Your Parachute” Book. ET’s wisdom from this week’s daily quotes has been quite helpful.
Jordan, like Shannon, I too enjoyed the Jesus and the Passion/Crucifixion Metaphor.
Peace,
José
Nis: “Some unknown power acts and you imagine that you are acting.”
This is what I have been intuitively feeling for years. Whatever I seem to do, think, or choose, it feels like a higher power is the one who is causing me to do exactly what it wants, even as it makes me think I want this, I choose this, I do this. What may seem even stranger is I love, surrender, relax, and feel intense gratitude for this. Peace
hi rick
and all
here is another you-me me-you
sweet dreams
slipping away
where is this away
is it away
is it here
is it the everywhere
it is the every where
the every where is everywhere
slipping into
this everywhere
makes the sweet dream come true
makes the sweet dream alive
who is the dreamer
where begins the dream
where begins the dreamer
the dream is because of the dreamer
the dreamer is because of the dream
they are because of them
slipping into
speeding
high speed
low speed
any speed
and the speed is the dream
so the speed is the dreamer, too
slipping into
spinning
high spin
low spin
any spin
and the spin is the dream
so the spin is the dreamer, too
slipping into
laughing
loud laughing
gentle laughing
any laughing
and the laughing is the dream
so the laughing is the dreamer, too
slipping into
loving
all loving
unconditional loving
all-embracing loving
and this loving is the dream
so this loving is the dreamer, too
what is this dream
who/what is this dreamer
it is the lovinglaughing laughingloving YOU
or
it is the lovinglaughing laughingloving ME
and the dreaming dreamer
the dreamer dreaming comes true through
Vermarian—
Thank you so much. I love it!!!
rickyRAT
PS I intend to visit yer blog, and sup on your sweet musings.
Hi all. I like the quote from the book, I Am That, that reads, Some unknown power acts and you imgaine that you are acting. How cool is that? Byron Katie says of the day that she woke up, “It moved.” Yeah, I can relate. Nothing moves unless you move it and who are you?
Kip—
Likey yer pome!
Cursings,
rickyRAT
Has anyone read and tried to implement “Radical Honesty” by Brad Blanton?
JVS: This is important ‘Effort’ energy, thinking I can make something happen. Is that called manifesting?
I believe some call that manifesting. I have seen so I believe manifesting happens, but it is only done by consciousness or the one self. Consciousness, life, oneness, the divine can use an illusory character like it has with me, to manifest through. But it is never the helpless dream character that is manifesting.
Anything the illusory character seems to be doing is actually being done by life or consciousness living through it.
JVS: Thinking I can even ‘know’ what should happen is just another form of egoic identity.
Is making any (I) statement also a form of egoic identity? I.E. I won the match. I changed the oil in my car instead of paying a machanic. I solved the puzzle. I made a mistake.
Hey Jordan—
My post in response ot william’s question of 3/9/09 did not appear.
I “imagine” that U deleted it.
If so, why? & why did U not let me know that you’d done so?
As the moderator, you are God of this Blog. You have the power to enforce Your Laws at any time w/ no oversight by anyone. So Be It. I request that if you delete one of mine, you send it back to me so I can send it privately to whomever it’s intended if it is in anwer to a specific question.
Also, what are the rules? I don’t want to waste my time composing something that’s gonna’ B trashed.
Also, if U trashed that post, please dig it out and send it back to me, I’d like to forward it to william.
Also, I live in Ft Worth, and want to come to the group in Plano sometime, and we could discuss, or cuss this then. And I read that MB does not favor Presence Groups. Obviously, U think/feel differently. What’s UR take?
rickyRAT
Ricky,
please entertain my comment here. When I read Williams question, I smelled a RAT, now I see that possibly I was not the only one. If William is a frequent and interested reader of this presence blog he would have read your earlier comments and could have contacted you directly about RD. I hope your writing is not “lost” to you, I suspect that it is not. MB has written a wealth of info about being authentic and maintaining integrity, I invite you to continue that process.
Man to Man, Jim
According to my inbox, a post from RT wasn’t received on 3/9 and consequently hasn’t been read or deleted. It is not in the waiting to be approved file, as well.
This blog is about commenting on the teachings presented in The Daily Now. Sharing from personal experience is invited and appreciated. Crosstalk is generally discouraged because it typically engages the mind.
Thanks for the pointer to be sure to inform people when their blog entries are not approved.
Yes, I decide.
Jordan
JS My bad (in a non-dual sense, of course!) I’m still learning computing, and make mistakes. And I don’t know unless I ask…
Although you said you don’t want to ocmment further, I’d like to know specifically what you’re referring to as “attitude.” I’ve read that ~20% of human communication is verbal, so a purely e-mail venue leaves alot to interpretation. I’m interested in knowing what you mean.
Jim, thanks 4 your thoughts. I do read michael daily, both his books and participate in his blog. RAT is my initials. Kinda’ like them, like Mickey Mouse’s naughty twin… I am Rick, and like to call myself ricky to call forth the inner child.
rickyRAT
))
Hi Jim,
I would respond to your post suggesting that my question was disingenuous,
but because I have entered a mind space of feeling the need to defend and clarify myself I will not.
William
I just listened to a reading of “Comfortable with Uncertainty” by Pema Chodron.
Excellent, excellent, excellent.
JVS: Who really wants to see that they are helpless?
When the self believes in it’s autonomy than it seeks control.
When the self believes it is a projection of and thus connected to a higher self than it seeks to merge with that higher self, even though that means it will loose it’s personal identity and be helpless. After that I dont know.
C,S,N & Young ” We were helpless, helpless, helpless, helpless.
I seem to have some mental block. I use the word (than) when I mean to use the word (then), as in the previous post. Oh well, I guess I’m not perfect. Or maybe everything that happens is perfect. Peace
Am sick of this ego but it feels like there is no getting rid of it. Have to learn to live with it.
JS—
Thank you for mentioning the Inner Presence connection that occurs in Presence groups. I had a similar occurance at my favorite AA group. Noticed a kind of quantum felt connection w/ all there. Like a point of connectedness from Heart to Heart that had a feel of deep loving. Noticed that the level of felt awareness of this seemed to vary from person to person, and it didn’t matter, I loved them all whatever their awareness. Michael states in the PP that he doesn’t care for Presence groups, and thinks AA can become an addiction of its own. Good thing complete agreement is not required to do the practice…Or as my mom tells me “Think for yourself!” or my Teacher said when I asked him if I’d need to move to OKC forward my progress “No. You need to learn to stand on your own 2 feet.” Or, as I prefer (ever the iconoclast) “Don’t drink the Kool-Aid!”
rickyRAT
Better yet, “Don’t Think!”
(Mom was close but no bananna.)
j
M: I did not condition my mind by thinking: ‘I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond’.
I simply followed his instruction which was to focus the mind on pure being ‘I am’, and stay in it
I think this statement by Nis may be the most important one I have seen on this site.This is the trap that 99% of people fall into they condition there mind by thinking these spiritual concepts. There are very few teachers who teach how to focus the mind. At a single point is oneness, deepness, stillness. This is the very first thing I was taught. I am grateful because it is the only way out of the conditioned loop and the ego and it’s bag of tricks.
NIS: “I did not condition my mind by thinking: ‘I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond’.
I simply followed his instruction which was to focus the mind on pure being ‘I am’, and stay in it.
I used to sit for hours together, with, nothing but the ‘I am’ in my mind and soon peace and joy and a deep all-embracing love became my normal state.
In it all disappeared – myself, my Guru, the life I lived, the world around me.
Only peace remained and unfathomable silence.”
——-
something about this quote today struck me as unbearably sweet–my heart softened and released after being squeezed tight/contracted for a long time…it feels really ‘good’, well, not good, but sweet, very sweet…i want to cry now but my son is talking to me…
namaste
~mf
In terms of “Don’t think”, I “try” to practice Ahimsa. It does no good to attack the thoughts to run them off. What U resist persists. So, non-resistance. I just notice them, and notice my reactions to them.
One of the most profound moments of my previous (pre-death) life was “getting it” at the EST training. After what felt like torturously gruelling and seemingly useless “training”, my mind gave up. I am a tube, a machine. Accepting that, thought stopped, or slowed, and awareness opened to a space of Being. I felt like the wide-eyed Wally at the end of “My Dinner With Andre”, a childlike sense of Wonder at an infinite and open universe. Naturally, I contracted from that experience, and, like any good addictive, ran after it with a smattering of success here and there.
I hesitate to say it because I by no means want anyone else to try my method, but I think, feel, that I had to die to live in my Life Purpose. I got as close as humanly possible to not coming back. Here, now thoughts, feelings occur. Perception, like an iris, widens and narrows. And everything is the same, but different. I am almost always grateful. Life is delicious, evocative, hilarious. Is is. Isis? (A faavorite bumper sticker I made up is “Ankh if you love Isis.”)
Being as I Am
rickyRAT
Nis: ” I did not condition my mind by thinking ‘I am God, I am wonderful, I am beyond’.
I never knew anyone ever thought or said anything like that until I read a book about the teachings of Ramana Maharshi. I then learned that many Hindus repeat over and over ” I am Brahman” which means I am God.
Ramana is definitely in agreement with Nis. Repeating “I am God” is not the way. Ramana says we need to ask ourselves ” Who am I?” When we ask (who am I?) we are asking what is the source of the I thought or the ego. After asking we look within. John Sherman says look at you. Turn awareness from looking out to looking at the looker.
Even though looking works well for many, instead of looking at me, I sometimes use a different sense or angle. I.E.
What is the taste of me or what does it taste like being me?
What is the experience of being me? What does it feel like? This me or I. Sometimes one or more of these will work better, so I experiment. It seems the me or I (the ego) is being used as a stepping stone to get to the Source or One Self.
When I am in awareness completely, I have trouble being in the world and the mind/body—expectations such as productivity as the world works. Any help here??? I obviously have not integrated to be able to work in this physical mental world and be able to make a living….I need help with the bridge.
I need to say the following to everyone on this blog and to all consciousness.
I LOVE YOU. I AM YOU AND YOU ARE ME. Namaste
Penny if it something needs to be done, do it. If it doesn’t, don’t.
ET: “There’s no absolute truth in any judgment that thought makes.”
Also the basis of Byron Katie’s “The Work”
Joy, would you say that includes the experience and thus the thought (I am) or even better (something is)?
MB: “Reacting to our reflections is what true insanity is”
That may be true. Most of the time I get the impression that MB is implying that we as individual personalities control and author our thoughts and thus make our own decisions. Comments?
“When I am in awareness completely, I have trouble being in the world and the mind/body—expectations such as productivity as the world works. Any help here??? I obviously have not integrated to be able to work in this physical mental world and be able to make a living….I need help with the bridge.”
I find it helpful to connect with the inner body first; notice when I’m disconnected and then reorient back to the self.
So, I notice, “I’m not connected with myself here.” I then connect. Feel the inner body. Take a couple of conscious breaths. Reorient so I come from a place of inner connectedness (whatever that means to you or me), in this moment.
Sometimes I’m lost or disconnected or ‘in the world’ for a long time – i.e. it’s a long while until I realize I’m in the mind.
Sometimes, when I ‘reorient’ I don’t quite ‘get back to where I ‘think’ I should be.’
No problem.
The nondual contains both ‘being in the world’ and ‘not being in the world’ beingness as ‘integrated’ and beingness as ‘not-integrated.’
It’s the true bridge to nowhere, I suppose you could say…
A report back would be welcome. j
Regarding MB and thinking the individual personality makes conscious choices, I would say he doesn’t teach that.
In this case, ‘reactivity’ is not implying a conscious choice.
So, if I’m not being reactive then what?
Good question.
j
Larry: MB is coming from a non-dual place of Oneness that recognizes that the “outer” is a reflection of the “inner” (and that the inner is reflected in the outer) relative to where we are and aren’t in our own self-knowledge, understanding, acceptance and love.
To “react to our reflections” is to fail to re-cognize that that “external” person/circumstance is a reflection of what is and is in our own consciousness/unconsciousness and is telling our self about our Self, what IS our Self and IN our Self. And to “react” to it is to simply perpetuate the illusion/delusion of separation and division, conflict, confusion and suffering both within and without — thus reinforcing the dualistic mind, the dualistic experience.
The choice then is one of Love or fear in terms of what, how, why and if, we react or respond.
>> JShafer: In this case, ‘reactivity’ is not implying a conscious choice.
So, if I’m not being reactive then what? <<
“Reactivity” is an essentially unconscious choice — or choice that is not made consciously and is oblivious to its effects and consequences — or simply is not concerned with or about them — whether to oneself or to another.
So, if one is not being reactive, one is being responsive and/or, as Michael would say, response-able. One is aware that one is aware that there is an effect and consequence to everything one thinks, says or does. And one is both responsible and accountable, both for it and to it.
dsp
So, if I’m ‘response-able’, then does that not imply choice?
>>jshafer: So, if I’m ‘response-able’, then does that not imply choice? <<
Yes. of course. It is (a) conscious choice. You are aware that you are aware that there is a consequence and affect to everything you think, say or do — or don’t.
Hi All,
I’m not a regular contributor, but am a regular reader and appreciate the wisdom that comes through this blog. In that vein I wanted to share something I found quite enlightening. It’s from a talk given by Matt Kahn, a remarkable teacher, on the subject of Surrender, from his March 4th radio show on the World Puja Network.
I’m going to paraphrase here, but he explained that when people say … “I don’t want this” …”I don’t want that,… I don’t want things to be this way, etc. .. that what is being expressed is an active preference which is the “personal will.”
He went on to explain that “personal will” cannot be surrendered or let go and that for a transformation to take place, the energy behind personal will must be completely EXHAUSTED. If not, then it becomes just another aspect of ego that says: “Look what I just did … I let go of this preference, that concept, that identity, that construct … aren’t I great!” …. which is just the ego again in a new costume.
I thought this was an interesting point of view. In my experience, Matt has a brilliant ability to cut to the heart of the matter in such a simple but profound way. Just thought I’d share in the event that there are others who might find this helpful.
I took this info from the Stillness Speaks Link. It is called a A Course in Consciousness. I agree with some of it but not all of it. David and everyone I would like you to take a look at it. At least the first part of conclusions.
Just a few Quotes from many. Remember (I dont agree with it all.)
a.”Doership is a concept that assumes that both the doer and causality exists. (“I can cause this to happen.)
b. However, since there is no doer, causality is nothing but a concept.
e. Even if objects existed, it is easily seen that no putative cause could ever be isolated from the rest of the universe, so it could never act alone. Therefore the entire universe would have to be the cause.
f. Because the I-object and causality are nothing but concepts, so is free will. It too does not exist.
What is the personal sense of doership?
a The illusory I-object carries with it the illusory personal sense of doership
b. However, since the I-object does not exist, there is no doer, no thinker, no chooser, and no observer.
c.Therefore,you can do nothing. Thus, if something is supposed to happen it will. If not it wont.
d. you can do nothing because you are nothing. That is to say, no-thing and no-body.
You have effectively EXHAUSTED the illusion/delusion of the some-thing, some-body and the accompanying so-called “personal will” that was based on the illusion/delusion of a separate and separated “self” and “doer” — the ego.
Ego/egoic mind is premised on separation and division — the dualistic mind and dualistic thinking. The Self (“True” Self) and it’s nature is non-dual.
Therefore, Life and everything and everyone in it is based on a fabrication and fiction of separation and division along with its attendant projection(s) based on those premises.
Life then is simply a dream whose purpose it is to awaken from in order to consciously return to dream consciously and intentionally, responsibly and accountably and above all, with Love, as Love, in Love.
or something like that . . .
Since U don’t exist, I guess U wouldn’t mind if I hit U in the head with a hammer?
Since “I” don’t exist, neither do “you” . . . nor your hammer.
However, in the dream “I” do and so do “you” . . . and your hammer.
However, on whatever level; whatever you do, you ultimately and essentially do to your self (and vice versa). So, the option is your’s and so, too, are the consequences.
Am I a pain in the ass dreaming that I am a man, or a man dreaming that I am a pain in the ass, or both…
Larry-
I don’t know. I guess it would involve anything with a thought attached to it. Pure perception, in the now, without thought might be truth or “love” as ET calls it.
Both.
LOL
Either/Or; Neither/Nor; Both/And …
However, having said that, Rick Tate, I would also say you’re getting close to the root of the problem and an integral part of its solution — and what, where, how and why the dissociation began.
So, by all means, be kind to your behind!
About Causal Felt-Resonance:
Anyone have any thoughts about starting with an uncomfortable sensation in the body and working back towards a name for the resonance? Or is this just a dumb idea?
Rick:
YES.
The following is also taken from a Course in Consciousness which I mostly agree with.
Identification with the concept of doership leads to the belief that ‘I’ can change what is and get what ‘I’ want.
With this belief comes the sense of personal resposibility.
With the sense of personal responsibility comes regret, guilt and shame for the past and worry, anxiety, and fear for the future.
It seems since I dont identify with the concept of doership or with the sense of personal responsibility, I dont experience regret, guilt, shame, for past actions that were not mine. I still may experience worry, anxiety and fear for the future, although to a much lesser degree, because I dont believe in karma, sin or debt of any kind since I have never done anything. It just all happened. I realize this belief may annoy some that strongly believe in personal responsibility, but it is the truth as I see it.
I seem to aligned with a higher power that can create or manifest something I like or want. I dont know if it is me and the higher power or just the higher power. All I know is I have seen it happen. Most of the time it creates or manifests something I have noticed like a name, a word or a sentence. Something will catch my attention and then I will see or hear it again and again during that day or the next. It can use anything like a magazine, the radio, TV, telephone, a signpost, an old book lying on the sidewalk.
It feels like this higher power is revealing itself to me whatever I am. It feels like grace and love. It is beautiful and I am filled with gratitude. Love and Peace
Rick! ha ha… Surely we are all ass one….
LMAF!!!
Thanks, Shannon! Great way to start the day!
rickT
>>Dingbat: About Causal Felt-Resonance:
Anyone have any thoughts about starting with an uncomfortable sensation in the body and working back towards a name for the resonance? Or is this just a dumb idea?<<
Maybe you and our friend, Rick Tate, can get together and explore the meaning and significance regarding a “pain-in-the-ass” as a felt resonance and its relationship to our concept of what it is to be a “man,” although maybe you’d have to move forward rather than backward from your starting point.
“Anyone have any thoughts about starting with an uncomfortable sensation in the body and working back towards a name for the resonance? Or is this just a dumb idea?”
I think you would still just be adding more labels, which is something we are all trying to get away from. Better probably to just be with the uncomfortable sensation, not label or fight it. Let it be there just because it is. Don’t go into the future or the past with it. In fact, welcome it.
Dingbat. I like the name or nickname. I really got a laugh out of reading it. Then again, it does’nt take much for me to laugh. I like to see the funny side. Plant you now, dig you later.
“Plant you now, dig you later.”
Larry- now you’re telling dirty jokes!
The “Nis” idea of seeking and avoiding, and pain and pleasure is in fact a “simple truth” but it is totally consuming me at the present. The seeking and avoiding is all about doing, not being, another attachment to a form of sorts. It’s hard just being after 50 years of only doing. Hmm… just “being” seems like another “doing” to me, there seems to be action involved. Wow! where do you start this just being. Again, action involved.
I have a question for anyone or everyone re: Larry’s writing on the 18th about when something comes into your awareness and then you see it again later. This happens to me every day. What I want to know is does this happen to the rest of you? I would assume that it does because it seems to have started “happening” to me with greater frequency as I’ve become more awake or present or whatever. Also, it seems to be more than just the reticular activating system in the brain.
Elizabeth, It’s cool to have someone confirm what I have been experiencing almost daily for about 5 years. Even though that experience happens the most, I have had many other types of experiences. It seems for me, the more I appreciate these experiences the more they happen. I did a lot of dream work for a few years. Mainly it consisted of remembering your dreams and writing them (or much easier recording them) on a small tape recorder as soon as you woke up, even if that was in the middle of the night. I started remembering more dreams to the point of sometime knowing when I was dreaming. Then I started having dreams of an exact duplicate experience (action for action word for word) that would happen sometime that next day. Or during the day, I could ask a question while I was walking and come across an old yellow paper back laying right in my path. I pick it up. Open to anywhere and there is an exact answer to my question. I think doing feeling work helped. It made me more open. It made me see how flexible or pliable what we call reality is. It seems to me there is a higher power showing me the true nature of physical reality. Physical reality is somewhat like a dream during sleep. Peace
I thankyou Jordan for including Francis Lucille=Beautiful, and the Stillness Speaks link. You are making the Daily Now website Better and Better and Better. Namaste
Hi Larry! It’s nice to hear of someone else having these experiences. Most of my friends think that I need to do something with these synchronistic events, harness them in some way like picking a lottery ticket or stocks. It always makes me laugh because I really just think that it’s confirmation that time doesn’t work the way we think it does and that everything and everyone are more connected than we seem.
It is probably happening all the time. When it happens it feels like a wink or a nod from the universe or source energy or God or whatever. Besides, I’ve never gotten the sense that I “make” these synchronistic events happen. They come out of the blue. For example, the other day a massage client asked me if I was familiar with the Seth material. Later that day I was sitting across from a man wearing one of those work shirts with the name Seth embroidered on it. I swear I haven’t even seen those kinds of shirts in years. And it’s not like every other guy walking around is named Seth. Also, if it only happened every so often I wouldn’t be writing about it now. These things happen to people. But every day? I sure do get a kick out of it. It’s fun – feels like an inside joke.
One morning I was thinking about how my dad used to piss off my grandma by saying, “You know, Mom, anything’s possible.” Boy that used to make her mad. We thought it was the funniest thing growing up. Later that morning my little boy(6 years old) was sitting with me on the couch and we were talking about how bright the moon was that morning. Then after a little pause and totally out of context with the rest of the conversation he says,”Everything’s possible, Mom.” When it happens in that particular way I think of the zero point field and figure that the person is in a “space” where they can access the information. Namaste
That’s good Elizabeth, thanks.
Those are good examples of what you are pointing to. I didn’t get the first one as much but the second one points clearly to universal consciousness.
More examples?
j
I think it was yesterday or the day before I found out an old friend that had aids died. His name was Seth.
Hi Larry! It’s nice to hear of someone else having these experiences. Most of my friends think that I need to do something with these synchronistic events, harness them in some way like picking a lottery ticket or stocks. It always makes me laugh because I really just think that it’s confirmation that time doesn’t work the way we think it does and that everything and everyone are more connected than we seem.
Yes, I agree. There are a lot of people who read ‘The Secret’ and are running around congratulating themselves (or not) for ‘manifesting’ – that whole thing kind of makes me gag.
Hi Larry! It’s nice to hear of someone else having these experiences. Most of my friends think that I need to do something with these synchronistic events, harness them in some way like picking a lottery ticket or stocks. It always makes me laugh because I really just think that it’s confirmation that time doesn’t work the way we think it does and that everything and everyone are more connected than we seem.
Yes, I agree!!
There are a lot of people who read ‘The Secret’ and are running around congratulating themselves (or not) for ‘manifesting’ – that whole thing kind of makes me gag.
Hi Jordan. More examples…..About 5 years ago during massages(I’m a massage therapist) when people weren’t talking and I was working in an area of the body where I wasn’t thinking about what I needed to do next something opened up. Whatever that means. During those quiet times I started seeing, hearing, tasting(that’s only happened 4 times) things that weren’t physically in the room. I had always felt things in my body during massages but it intensified. I never talked to clients or friends about it because there wasn’t some great voice from the sky saying,”And now you must pass this on to the people!” When I finally told friends about it they, of course, wanted to know what I “saw” during one of their massages. I told them if I just seemed to see dead people I would go and be a medium. If I just heard voices I’d channel. If I was just “seeing” and feeling energy I’d be….you get the drift. Since there is so much variety and it keeps changing, I’ve resisted the urgings of friends to “take some classes so you know what’s happening”. It comes from a “space” of not knowing or no mind – I guess. Whatever that means. Plus, I believe that whatever I label limits its expansion and why would I want to do that? When I let friends in on my “stuff” it changed and I would “allow” it and things would flow. So there does have to be complete silence now.
Oh yeah, sorry, examples…A friend who’s about to retire was on the massage table, he said that it was interesting that everything I was seeing, hearing etc. had such a youthful quality to it. I said, “yeah, it seems like the body is somewhat subject to time but in your head you can just pick your age. That’s nice.” Then I saw the Three Stooges at the end of the table which I thought was hilarious but my friend wasn’t laughing. I said, “Don’t you think that’s funny?” He said, “No, it makes total sense. During college, a time in my life when I felt very alive and growing and excited, twice a day – EVERY day – I’d come home from class to eat and I’d watch an episode of the Three Stooges.”
Another time a friend’s husband, who was switching career paths, asked which direction he should go. Before I could answer(I didn’t have an answer) the “guy” sitting at the end of the table looked up and said, “tell him to pay attention around 3:00.” So, again, I’m laughing because what the hell does that mean? I’m not a psychic. I don’t even really know how this stuff happens. Well, anyway, so at 2:57 the phone rings, they don’t make it to the phone, it reads “architectural” something, they can’t call the number back and 1 week later he’s working at an architectual firm.
These kinds of “knowings” don’t happen all the time. And who cares? My friend seemed to get the “lesson” before the Three Stooges showed up. The other guy would probably have gotten his current job without their “sign”. I’ve found myself resisting some of this “stuff” with people seem too interested in me having “answers” for them. I suppose that’s a judgement on my part. It’s just that I don’t think I have information that they don’t have access to. I think it’s unhealthy to believe you can go to someone else to get answers to every life question.
OK Now I’m really laughing at myself because for YEARS I’ve wanted to ask someone like you about my “stuff”. Just to get an opinion about what is really happening.
One last thing… the most beautiful thing that “happens” is when I almost start crying from the beauty that I’m seeing. It’s like something is either stripped away from the person or something blocking my vision is lifted and I’m seeing the love and light of source energy. Now I’m crying… it’s the most beautiful experience. Then I use that image when I’m out in daily life around people to remind me that it’s all everyone is made of. It’s just harder to see in some than others and I’m sure the “seeing” depends on my state.
Namaste
I was also in a dream group for several years. Your dreams have many symbols and we would talk about them after we would review our dreams. After about a year I started looking at “waking” life the same way. My waking life took on a dreamlike quality. I didn’t know at the time how “real” this was.
About the same time, as I was getting more interested in ending my suffering, I read AND did the daily exercises in “A Course in Miracles.” (and this is in response to Frances Lucille’s quote of the day and Nis) I had absolutely no idea what they were talking about but I just trusted that there was something there that could help. I thought it basically went in one ear and out the other, The apple was really not ripe although I had the willingness, that wasn’t enough. (But I believe it does plant the seed)
I really do believe (for me) my suffering had to get so bad that even the ego can’t help you (as strong as mine was.)
My mother died
My cat died
My brother-in-law died
I had an awful stressful job
and my long time partner left me for another woman, 20 years younger than me.(ouch)
All in the same year and a half.
I literally took 2 years off and basically did nothing. But I did finally arise from the ashes, as they say. Not awakened, but ripe. I could finally take in some spiritual teachings.
Six years (maybe more)after my initial reading, I picked up “A Course in Miracles” a couple of weeks ago and it made me laugh, (how foreign it used to seem to me.)
Namaste
That being said, there are still a lot of things that make absolutely no sense to me in some spiritual teachings.
In a lot of my dreams (not all) impossible things seem to happen like a person will change into a doll then chage back into another person etc. But when I realize I’m dreaming things seem more ‘normal’. I was walking down a hallway in a building and I suddenly realized I was asleep and this was a dream. I decided to see if the floor and wall were solid or seemed solid. I pounded on the wall and stomped on the floor. Yes both seemed as solid as I experience physical reality. So this dream was very life like.I experience physical reality as being solid but I dont believe it is. I believe my experience (the brain and senses) are not showing me the truth.
I would like to share one experience I have had. A few years ago I wrote a spiritual rap song. A few months later I was walking (I walk alot) and a car drove by playing loud rap music. What caught my eye was a 35 or 40 year old woman was driving the car. Seemed unusual. I immediately started thinking about my sriritual rap song. As I was going to a satsang that night ( of a spiritual group I’m no longer interested in) I thought I should bring my spiritual rap song. They may like it. I thought about it alot but I finally decided not to. Maybe it was’nt dignified enough. The final words of the rap song are as follows.
“You might think I’m crazy, You might say I’m smart, cause I dont see with my eyes yo, I see with my heart.”
When I got to the satsang I started telling people about all these experiences of synchronicity I was having. They did’nt quite get it. The next lady that shared said she had just been in a car accident and her MD said she might be going blind because of detached retinas. She then said “but I’m not worried because If I cant see with my eyes I can see with my heart.” I guess I should have brought my rap song, but I did’nt need to.
Dingbat, Just another way to look at things.
People who read ‘The Secret and run around congatulating themselves (or not) for manifesting.-that is their role in the play. That is what they HAVE to do.
When that whole thing kind of makes you gag-that is your role in the play. That is what you HAVE to do.
So forgive them and forgive yourself if you can.
I have to write this.-that is my role and what I Have to do in the play so forgive me if you can.
I stopped by Tom Thumb to pick-up some 1/2 & 1/2. I noticed for the first there is ‘low-fat’ 1/2 & 1/2. That seemed wierd to me. Why would you want that? The reason you’re buying 1/2 & 1/2 is to get milk with more cream, which is milk with more butterfat.
So, I asked myself, “What would ‘low-fat’ 1/2 & 1/2 really be?”
The answer that came up was ‘milk.’ Mix low-fat milk with cream you get ‘regular milk’ back to where you started.
I was thinking that’s kind of funny. I was wondering if I could turn that into a joke and I was playing with the wording in my head as I walked to the checkout.
And then I had a ‘Larry’ and ‘Elizabeth’ moment; the lady in the checkout line ahead of me had two, mind-you, quarts of ‘lowfat’ 1/2 & 1/2.
The foreshadow and now the event.
A chance to tell my joke.
I said, “Oh, you’re buying some ‘lowfat’ 1/2 & 1/2.”
She ignored me.
But I persisted.
She finally acknowledged. “Yes, 1/2 and 1/2.”
I said, “What is ‘lowfat’ 1/2 & 1/2 really?”
She just looked at me.
I persevered. “Milk,” I said.
The look of distain on her face was melting.
I thought, “Well, maybe this isn’t a moment of peeking into consciousness, after all.”
Hi Jordan! Now that’s good humor.
My cousin, who I think is hilarious, was worrying one day that if she became “too present” that she wouldn’t be funny anymore and wouldn’t find any humor in anything. I think I’ll give her the heads up about this sight.
Hello Elizabeth, et al…
i think a lot of people share the concern your cousin has, of everything becoming too serious and heavy, if they become present. that maybe they will see and know too much and it will be overwhelming emotionally and psychically. i had a moment of spontaneous presence once — it was after an intense argument with someone and i was feeling confused, angry and frustrated. as i sat the feeling of angst just sort of ‘lifted’ off me and EVERYTHING felt so light and funny that i literally couldn’t stop laughing. i’ve been fortunate enough to have a few more spontaneous presence moments grace me since then, but that time sticks in my mind because i laughed so hard and so long.
namaste
~mf
It seems to me the human mind can’t be present. The present is gone so fast the mind can only think of what just was or the past. I guess thats the point-going beyond the mind to a place of unknowingness.
I have heard or read that it is impossible given the bio-mechanical structure of the brain to experience the Present Moment. There is always some lag. Is certainly possible, in my experience, to experience a much less encumbered near-Now.
Too, I think we mis-identify thinking. I think what we consider thoughts and feelings most often come from the same repressed/stifled/encumbered place. In order to approach his mental body with greater clarity, Einstein would sit holding a tennis ball. When he began to let go and dropped the ball, he had arrived at the space where clarity and creativity of thought was possible.
It is also my experience that in Present Moment Consciousness (or as close as I’ve been able to get…) life is often hilarious.
rat
The reason the brain finds it difficult to be present is because there are brain pathways, habits. These habitual ways of thinking flicker and move randomly from the past to the future.Memory thoughts and wishful thinking.If our goal is to experience the present moment 100% of the time then there will be times that the brain will be involved because we exist in a body. If this was not the case then we could only experience the present moment during meditation.This journey always begins in the brain. The stimulation starts here. This is the pathway to awarness. When we become aware that we are not present then another layer of work sets in. To think that we need to get beyond something is destination consciousness and duality. It is rather to experience the space that already exists. Until you find a teacher who can instruct you on how to discipline the brain through the attention the path to the present moment will be fleeting at best. This is because the brain is the conditioned mind and it will always win out.When the thoughts are slowed and stilled there is space. As Eckhart says Stillness Speaks.The vibratory frequency of the brain must be slowed down to recive the higher vibration of consciousness. This is the only doing that is requried as far as doings go. It is the perfect marriage of the male doing in order to create a space to recive the female and be.
From the last EMDR conference I attended, a neuro-psychologist addressed the issue as follows:
The left brain is logical and references the past and future.
The right brain is emotional/creative and addresses the present moment.
Take the case of when a trauma happens (high stress), the amygdale signals danger and the left brain turns off. All of the information is streamed through the senses into the right brain. The system is in survival mode, so information is received and processed below the level of thinking. ‘Right Action’ follows (hopefully)or not; it’s live or die.
That explains why people do high intensity/dangerous sports, mountain climbing, sky diving, etc.; it shuts off the thinking brain so they can Be.
Also, people report, and I believe most of us have had this experience, that when they were in a high ‘impact’ situation such as a car crash, it seemed as if it went into slow motion. I remember flying over the handle bars of my bicycle as if in time lapse photography mode.
That’s clearly a case of the left brain turning off and, as such, is no longer ’sequencing’ the event. Past and future are suspended. Therefore, there are no intermediate markers for time; just the beginning and the end. In that case, time seems to expand.
So, when Presencing happens, it may be that the left brain has dropped away and is not ’sequencing’ the series of events happening in the life situation at that moment.
The instant thought comes back in and says, “Wow, I’m present!” That’s the left brain coming back on line, which is then not presence.
However, nonduality includes both ‘presence’ and ‘not-presence’ so nothing has to be different than it is.
Thinking you need to train the brain or the mind is a well established ‘belief’ but it is not this teaching. Why? Because it adds the dimension of time.
As Eckhart clearly says, there is nowhere to go, nothing to do, and nothing to learn or figure out, because it’s always Now. j
Steve & Jordan
thank you for these comments. especially appreciate latest sci. data. whatever illuminates what is…
rt
Hey Jordan—
Would U add links to current brain research, esp. in relation to “spirituality?”
Thanx,
rt
What drives and guides consciousness on the physical plane is the Attention and what drives it on the inner vibrational is Intention.If you have no command over your attention it will be where ever the conditioned mind is lost in and to the moment.
During the presence process what occurs? We are using a form or structure with intent to allow ourselves an experience to begin to train ourselves and become aware of our reactions – this is the brain. It is a program of habitual thinging. It is a charge in the cells.We first become aware and then we have the capacity to begin to respond and be with this energy. The presence process is the doing and responding is the being.
Without this parameter to experience within we just would not get it. Remember it took Echart to be near suicide to break down the conditioning. Mb recommends doing the presence process 3 times.
I can allow dedicated awareness to ‘what is’ like the feel of the rug under my bare feet or the taste of a pear or the sound of the fridge going on. I can allow myself to allow and be with whatever is being sensed or experienced.
Tony Parsons ” Letting go of the one who is aware can easily follow, but it can never be a task. I can not ‘do’ presence, simply because I ‘am’ presence. Presence is not a task-It can not be used by my will. It is not a spiritual exersize or a tool to get somewhere, like a prayer or formal meditation. When I attempt to harness it to a task, I have tried to constrain “that which is beyond limitation.”
When I said dedicated awareness to ‘what is’ I do not exclude feelings or emotions of fear, grief, anger, etc. I dont need to label them. Just feel them or anything I am experiencing.
“Giving him or her, one could say, ’space’.
That’s true love…allowing each human being to be, without imposing labels or interpretations”
~E. Tolle
It is so refreshingly breathtaking to hear Eckhart ‘talk about’ “love,” especially within the context of being familiar with his teachings. I felt my ego totally caught off guard and I was able to receive this message. Wow! The best things cannot be described with words. Jordan, how about some more of this wisdom on love and relationships, please.
Jordan, I also want to apologize for not being able to “plug-in” to the Sunday afternoon Presence meeting. Quite honestly, I have been caught up in a major ordeal regarding a “love relationship” with my ex-girlfriend. I am in major pain, partly because of my own doing, and would appreciate you and the other seekers’ prayers and blessings for healing and reconciliation, please.
Peace and Blessings Unto All!
José
It was really beneficial to read the Daily Now!
Thanks for publishing it.
I heard something really good this morning on a Chodron CD.
It was about finding a way to talk to someone so they hear you, so that they don’t put up walls. She doesn’t tell you how to do that, that is left to you. Also the difference between compassion and control. Compassion isn’t about fixing everything, fixing every thing is control. (Loved that one) She calls that Idiot Compassion. Have to laugh.
Yesterday I had a realization on a level other than mental. It was more of a knowing even though the mind tried to make sense of it after.
It was I am everyone. I could be everything also but this was limited to everyone.
This is how the mind made sense of it. I call myself “I” but so does everyone I know. Most people think “but I’m this ‘I’ and your that ‘I’ “. We are different “I”. But thats the point. We are not different ‘I’s” We are all the same I. It’s true we all apparently have different body’s, personalities, histories, circumstances. But we are all the Same I. Dont you feel like your ‘I’? So does everone else. Namaste
Jose-
My two cents-
According to all the teachers I’ve read or heard you are very lucky to be in a lot of pain. If you can just be with the pain without trying to put blame on someone or yourself. Don’t fight it, welcome it, feel it in it’s purest form (without it being attached to any form)
What we most want to avoid in our lives is what is most needed. This situation, this pain you are feeling is just what is needed on your path. Breathe it in and then ventilate it with your out breath.
ET says: “That’s true love…allowing each human being to be, without imposing labels or interpretations”
He, I believe would say the same thing about all forms, including thought forms and feelings.
Struggling with our unacceptable, unwanted situations is what we are all doing here. We are warriors. Now go get ‘em, tiger.
Jose you wrote ” i have been caught up in a major ordeal regarding a “love relationship” with my ex-girlfriend. I am in major pain partly because of my own doing, and would appreciate you and the other seekers prayers and blessings for healing and reconciliation please.
I’m not sure where to start. I do realize your in emotional pain. The first thing I would say is to feel the pain. Not try to make it go away through prayer and reconciliation. See this situation as a great opportunity to feel what your feeling.
” I am in major pain partly because of my own doing.” Your blaming yourself for doing something that you- your personality
could not have done differently. So forgive yourself completely.
I pray that you will realize who and what you really are. First you are unconditional love so you dont need to get or extract love from another to feel you are OK. You can have a preference for a relationship but you dont need one, even if it feels that way. You are not a person named Jose. That is a role you are playing. There are no words for who you are. Find out who you really are. Peace- We are one
Advice giving (e.g. “so forgive yourself completely” or “I pray that you will realize who and what you really are”) is not helpful (even if it is later proclaimed to helpful by the receiver). It’s only agreeing that you believe there is a problem, which means this teaching hasn’t been integrated.
Explaining (“That is a role you are playing”) is not helpful either. In essence, it’s saying, “If you knew what I know then you’d be…” – even if that was not the intention in what was being said.
Better yet, feel the discomfort that arose before the need to advise and explain; and share that.
And, I’ll sit with my discomfort over the need to advise and explain about not-advising and not-explaining.
j
There was a feeling that (someone) was in pain and was asking for help. There was also a feeling that the help that was being asked for was not the help that was needed. [There was a feeling of discomfort in anothers pain. It can be described as empathy.] The reason I used the word (pray) is because there was a request for prayer. I dont usually use the word (pray or prayer) but there was a feeling that what was being requested with prayer, was not what was needed. I felt this person could relate to the word (pray or prayer). If someone explained to me -the person Larry is a role and not who you really are-I would find it helpful. I would even like it. I would think “Wow, then who am I really?
[It's true there was a feeling of discomfort in anothers pain.] I do not deny it. There was also a feeling of wanting to help and what I wrote is what came out. J you say it was not helpful to Jose. (I dont know for sure.) It may have been helpful to another reading this blog. It may have been helpful to you, so you could explain to me and everyone, what is helpful and what is not helpful and that would be helpful to everyone. Even though you feel discomfort giving advise, it seemes like you got somethig out of it. Please dont take this the wrong way- You got to be right. At least thats what you believe. Whatever the teachings, I’m not sure what is right or even if there is a right as opposed to a wrong. I believe my previous post helped someone. Jose, another, me, you. It does seem it is what caused your responce.
Jordan—
Just visited the EMDR movie link, viewed all videos, & read all other stuff. Fascinating.
Repeating request for more links to brain research. Love the clip from the neuroscientist who’d had stroke, hmm, seems not to be there anymore.
Anyway, love that info. Heard that there is no connection bet. Amygdala and forebrain of serial killers, and that connection for socio/psychopaths is minimal, and that s/p represent ~1 in 200 of population.
rt
Oh, particularly liked the EMDR clip w/ the guy w/ walrus ’stache & that friend from reunion said, as aside, and “Oh, yeah, and I’ve been clean & sober for 12 years.” since informal EMDR session @ previous reunion…
Oh, also remember hearing that ~20% of human communication is verbal/language. Is this correct?
The feeling of discomfort of another’s pain, is still ‘my’ discomfort and ‘my’ pain. The feeling of wanting to help is still a feeling of ‘my’ discomfort.
Me feeling ‘my’ discomfort is all that is needed.
Take care to be certain that ‘wanting to help’ doesn’t become a form of manipulating, not only the other, but also ‘myself’, away from our apparent shared pain and discomfort.
If you think about it, I can never feel anothers’ pain. For two reasons: 1. there are no others; 2. I only feel the feelings that appear within this field of awareness – which may be universal and unlimited but it’s still within the field of this apparent me.
Acceptance means not only inviting you to accept your avoidances but also for me to accept mine.
Even though I cant really feel anothers pain, the impersonal self can make me feel discomfort and empathy for anothers pain. I believe the impersonal self (consciousness or God) had me and Joy give Jose the (advise) that he would do best to feel his pain. I remember writing (but not authoring) that the situation Jose was in, was a great opportunity to feel his pain. It seems God believes in giving advise and at the same time does not believe in giving advise. But thats God for you. It seems the one impersonal self usually believes in one thing and the opposite of it and all the gradations in between. And he uses us to express them. It’s kind of funny. If The impersonal self decides it wants me to run away from my pain thats exactly what I’ll do. It seems thats what it has most people do. Well now you know how God has me believe. How does God have you believe? Or maybe you (this is for everyone) believe you author your thoughts. You are the chooser the decider and the doer. You have free will. If thats what you believe, I think thats what God wants you to believe. God (caused) me to see like I do. In one way (to me), it is like a divine comedy. Comments?
Hi Jordan,
Your post highlights a confusion I have with non dual awareness. You say:
Me feeling ‘my’ discomfort is all that is needed.
Yet, where I live there are homeless people who actually die at night in the cold if someone does not help them.
I have discomfort about that. Is feeling my discomfort and not reaching out to help enough? Where does compassion fit in?
and also you say:
I can never feel anothers’ pain. For two reasons: 1. there are no others; 2. I only feel the feelings that appear within this field of awareness
How does this go with Jesus teaching – Whatever you do for the least of these you do for me?
Thanks for any clarification.
Best,
William
“I am in major pain, partly because of my own doing, and would appreciate you and the other seekers’ prayers and blessings for healing and reconciliation, please.”
~quote from my originaly request from a couple of days.
Jordan, Joy, and Larry:
I agree with Jordan. I did not ask for advice, I asked to be held in prayer.
I am involved with men’s circles and male initiation, it’s one of the best kept secrets brothers, and I have learned men, generally speaking, myself included have a strong tendency to want to control, fix, and understand whether my own situation and/or another.
I felt receiving Joy’s feedback, in fact, it felt refreshing, hopeful, and encouraging.
Larry, although I believe you mean well, something within me was saying, “this man is trying to fix you, look at all this unsolicited advice he is giving you.
I think today’s quote from Eckhart, at least for me, ‘points to the moon’ over this subject.
Peace/Blessings To All and please keep me in your prayers.
“So to be with a human…just allow them to be.
And when you speak, during those periods during which we speak…be in the state of alert attention which is the state of listening totally.
To giving total attention as you listen to the words…complete attention.
Not preparing the next statement, or interpreting what the other person is saying.
Just give complete attention.
Maybe you won’t say anything…maybe some words will come…who knows.
That is bringing the unconditioned consciousness into human interactions.”
I suppose if we give the homeless blankets so WE can sleep better that wouldn’t really be compassion.
Pema Chodron talks a lot about the difference between compassion and idiot compassion. Also, Eckhart talks about it. It doesn’t necessarily mean that we do nothing.
Pema Chodron believes that in a group of people (who are working on having an open heart) it is ok to remind someone to look at a situation a different way. It’s not really about advice or feeling better. But it is a fine line. She says that when we communicate with people, we communicate in a way that the other person will hear us, so they do not put up walls.
What I read from Jose, ET, Joy, and J, I may change how I respond, but whether I am able to or not rests in the hands of the infinite who has already written my role in this life. That role may include change since I have changed so many times and gone through so many changes so far.
I have heard people blaming the devil but blaming god the infinite. Thats a role I have not seen before
To further understand what I mean read A Course in Consciousness by Professor Stanley Sobottka- For students of non duality with an interest in quantum theory. He is a Professor Emeritus of Physics at the University of Virginia. His Course in Conciousness covers the spectrum of physics to spirituality and is recommended by Fracis Lucille.
Go to the Stillness Speaks Link near the bottom of The Daily Now. Click Resourses top right-The next page look to the left. You will see (Sobottka A Course in Consciousness.) Click it. The first or second part is called (Dialouges in Consciousness.) It is not very long and easy to understand.
The whole Course is quite a bit longer but (Dialouges) are just about 30 or so conclusions of his study.
I like these two Quotes 1: “Even if objects existed, it is easily seen that no putative cause could ever be isolated from the rest of the universe, so it could never act alone. Therefore the entire universe would have to be the cause.
2: Because the I-object and causality are nothing but concepts so is free will. It too does not exist.
Also there is no one to blame. Cause is not blame. It is an explanation of what apparently happens and how it apparently happens. Peace
William,
It sounds like you are caught in your mind making thoughts real. If a homeless person was around you would either help them or not. In the moment you always know what to do. Compassion happens in the moment. Meditate more – think less.
William
I agree William. When I help a homeless person or a charity that trys to lesson suffering, I sometimes get the thought, (maybe part of the reason I’m doing this is to feel better about myself.) Then the thoughts comes “so what.- “Thats not a good enough reason not to help.” If this can reduce their suffering, whether I feel better or not, I’m going to try to help. Most of the time I dont wait for them to ask. I give unsolicited help. They can throw the $2 or $3 dollars back in my face and say “I did’nt ask for your help-I’m not a damn wellfare case.” Thats OK. It feels worth it to me. It feels like something I need and want to do. I also respect anyone who does’nt feel like doing what I do.
I loved the comments from Michael Brown today – about how we try to control God. I’m trying to leave behind my ego’s constant call to “control the outcome”. It’s like praying for something … but being very specific about exactly how I want the prayer answered (yes, that would be trying to control God). By my being so specific in how I expect my prayer (or any other life event) answered, I limit the possibilities. God is infinite … His answers could astound me, if I just wouldn’t allow my thoughts to stray to “what I think the outcome should look like”. When I provide a limit … that’s exactly what I get.
Susan
MB: ” Letting our emotional nature take it’s course is the hungry hourse for us.”
I have done different types of emotional and feeling therapy for over 10 years. It always seemed to me that repressed feelings wanted to be felt. It felt like the natural thing to do was to allow the feelings to be felt. This image may sound strange but to me it was like I had eaten something rancid and the body wanted to purge (throw it up). One of the problems I had was, I was afraid to throw up. It felt like a loss of control. I remember as a child being sick and nauseated but trying not to throw up because I was afraid to. As far as allowing feelings to be felt I finally got past that. Once a formerly repressed feeling was fully felt I felt much better. I also realized where it came from and how it started.
Larry—
Really appreciate what you say in this post. Think you metaphor is perfect.
RT
Larry
Thanks for image.
Do you think this also includes positive feelings that have not been fully experienced? (even love)
William
“Letting our emotional nature take its course is the hungry horse for us.”
Love it. What an incredible pointer.
“The world is made of rings.
The hooks are all yours.”
Everybody had something incredible today. I’ve been really busy the last couple of days trying to bend straight a few hooks. Easier, in a way, to stay hooked, but by staying hooked I was really just adding to everyone’s misery including my own.
It seems like I was numb to feeling happy feelings until I allowed the negative feelings to be felt. The walls I built to not feel pain, fear, anger, grief also blocked out joy, fun, laughing. I do consider releasing any feeling (after it has been blocked ) a positive experience. The following is true. I used to stick my fingers down my throat to get the gag reflex going. It worked for me. It may have something to do with how I blocked feelings.
William, The positive feelings including love could naturaly be felt after experiencing the feelings I was afraid to feel. Peace
PS, When I feel Love now I often cry at the same time.
For whatever reason I feel that I want to thank everyone writing in this space. I live in Fargo, ND which is experiencing a flood. The thoughts expressed here have helped me to “center” myself each day. Whatever that means. I don’t always have a great understanding or words for what I experience. I guess that’s OK, but I’m often blown away by how well those of you writing here grasp concepts that are as yet beyond me.
This flood experience is fascinating. It’s interesting to watch everyone’s(including my own) reactions to things.
Nis: Your balance must be dynamic, based on doing just the right thing, from moment to moment”
” Rely entirely on clarity of thought, purity of motive and integrity of action. You cannot possibly go wrong.
Is he kidding? How do you know just what the right thing is? Is your thought always clear? Are your motives always pure? Are your actions always right? Do you even know?
I am not sure if he is saying “you cannot possibly go wrong” if you follow his advice or not. I would say don’t worry about any of this. You still can’t possibly go wrong or right. YOU are beyond concepts of wrong or right.
The dynamic balance Nis speaks of has to do with energy. Everything is energy. The balance is of the ying and yang principles. One is an aggressive movement of energy one is receptive. One is doing one is being. It is dynamic because it is in motion one complementing the other.It is not about being right or wrong but rather knowing which to be in any moment, aggressive or receptive.It is by living in the present moment that this becomes clear.
This experience of being present brings clarity of the thoughts and the intent for ones actions is known to he self and the integrity of action is one of doing that adds the whole self and humanity-not just temporary physical actions for sensory stimulation.
The present moment leads to this connectiveness within the self and then the connectivity to humanity. Oneness is Perceived and known.
I wish Nis would say what he means and mean what he says. Or just maybe he did!
MB: Realizing that change is what remains constant throughout all our experiences is a massive insight, because then we know that if we do not like the quality of the experience that we are having, we can change it.
hello all —
i was wondering…in essence,(forgive the unintentional pun) how is what MB says above any different from LOA (law of attraction)? particularly the part about being able to change our experience (or quality of experience)?
namaste.
mf, reading between the lines I get the impression that you are attracted to the (LOA). I also get the direct impression that some people that blog on this site feel animosity toward (LOA)-forgive me if I’m wrong-.
I think MB and (LOA) are both talking about changing your present and future experience. It is just the means employed are different.
MB encourages us to feel are feelings which will change our experience now and later. I believe freeing or integrating repressed feelings works and is helpful to you and others.
(LOA) suggests we get in touch with (what I call universal mind) and ask it to change your experience of your future. Since some believe (including me) that universal mind is connected to [all life forms and everything else] or everything is universal mind (oneness) there is a way to access it. I dont believe the way to access universal mind was fully explained in The Secret. Through experience I believe there is a higher intelligence that can change the illusion we call reality.
It’s me that has the negative attitude (aka animosity) towards LOA – you’re not wrong. My reactivity is so strong that I know there must be something in there (within me) for me to look at.
Until then, I think MB’s teaching and LOA are somewhat similar. On the other hand, MB is very clear that we stay with the feelings for ‘no reason’ – which I take to mean that we aren’t trying to attract anything.
It’s clear to me that touching or sensing or arriving at the nondual state has nothing to do with the conditioned realm. Only the mind would think that ‘I’ could attain an unconditioned state such that it will change or ‘positively’ affect the conditioned state. That, if I could just get enough bliss I’ll never have to deal with realitive feelings again. BS.
In truth, we never know what is going to happen next. If I can live in the non-knowing of that, letting go of any need for it to be different than exactly how it is going to be, and surrender to that, and live in acceptance of that, then the conditioned state/mind will ebb and flow and it’ll be what it is. Slogans aside. Positive self-talk aside. Getting a bunch more crap I don’t really need, aside. Nondualistic, Ramana Maharshi, Nis, MB, ET mumbo jumbo aside.
If the LOA works then why talk about it; just go to Vegas and prove it.
I think the question we all have to ask ourselves is: If this teaching (advaita, nondualism) won’t make my life better then why would I do it or seek it?
The answer is: You wouldn’t.
On the other hand, to me, it feels like it already has. j
Jordan please tell if I am misreading you. The (feeling) I got after reading your last blog is you do not want The LOA even mentioned on this blog unless someone feels very negatively about it. Is that right? If it is I will not mention it again after this blog. You did say some things that I would like to clarify.
“It’s clear to me that touching or sensing or arriving at the nondual state has nothing to do with the conditioned realm”
Does that mean you believe that the nonndual state is seperate
from the conditioned realm and never the twain shall meet? Because to me that is a description of duality. The nonduality I believe is (all is one.)
“If this teaching (advaita,nondualism) wont make my life any better then why would I do it or seek it?”
“The answer is: You would’nt”
Thus if I was asked to stay with my feelings for no reason would I do it? The answer is: I would’nt. I know MB says stay with your feelings for no reason, but I believe people ignore that and believe there is something positive I will get by staying with my feelings. Otherwise they would’nt do it.
You are misreading me. I’m very okay with LOA being presented and talked about.
“Does that mean you believe that the nonndual state is separate
from the conditioned realm and never the twain shall meet? Because to me that is a description of duality. The nonduality I believe is (all is one.)”
That’s a great observation. Remember, we’re dealing in paradox here, and technically the ‘nondual state’ isn’t a state, its nothing. So, that nothing and something is still one.
+++++
“Thus if I was asked to stay with my feelings for no reason would I do it? The answer is: I would’nt. I know MB says stay with your feelings for no reason, but I believe ‘people ignore that and believe there is something positive I will get by staying with my feelings. Otherwise they would’nt do it” ‘
I think you’re right that ‘people ignore that…’.
What would it mean to give up even that glimmer of hope that we can make ‘positive’ things happen in our life? Who or what would we be then?
I’m probably missing something here, as much of this is relativey new for me, and I suspect I will get my “feelings” hurt, but isn’t MB’S teaching about actually feeling your feelings and therefore being authentic, and not about feeling “better” and getting something “positive”?
That’s a great point.
MB would say, “it’s not about feeling good it’s about feeling everything.”
What does it mean to be ‘authentic’?
I believe even being authentic-honest,real,genuine,trustworthy- is considered by certain egos as being positive. Being a better person. Once your authentic you can look up to yourself. You can even admire yourself.
J “What would it mean to give up hope that we can make ‘positive things happen in our life? Who or what would we be then?
Good question.
Complete surrender. That could be seen as a relief in a way if the one that was hopeless, was not suffering or was not suffering too badly. If one was suffering badly enough, one would experience despair and would consider suicide if one had the means.
-lack of falsehood or misrepresentation
-entitled to acceptance or belief because of agreement with known facts or experience.
This is right out of the dictionary, whatever that’s worth. In the context of this discussion sounds to me like not allowing and or trying to circumvent the reality of what one is experiencing at any given moment by control, therefore being “entitled to acceptance” based on “experience”, being “authentic”. Not trying to control or manipulate what actually is. I would guess MB means “feeling everything” is a totally unconditional state, therefore liberated.
Most if not all spiritual teachers and masters appeal to that universal trait in humans to want to feel better in some way. Since most everyone has it, I conclude that it’s natural and right. Even if the particular teaching starts off with feeling pain or a lot of disipline the end result is to in some way feel better than before the teaching. In other words it’s OK to want to feel better. It’s fine to want to experience life as sweeter. I think it’s even alright to feel good about yourself. I’m not an ego buster. I think we need the ego or as some say the false self to look within and go deeper to the One.