This blog is to give people the opportunity to share experiences and observations related to teachings presented in The Daily Now.
It is a moderated blog, and the guidelines for blogging are:
1. Share from personal experience as related to nondual teachings.
2. Advice giving is discouraged.
3. Speaking from a place of not-knowing is encouraged.
ET “Be suspicious when you encounter a teaching that is totally logically consistent and has no contradictions.”
Nis “Obviously. I make no claims of consistency.”
@ Jordan
I really enjoy synchronisities and assume that you couldn’t possibly have the time to scan all the material for the Daily Now to find statements that match. It seems to happen quite often. Love that.
I found Pamela Wilson on the Daily Now and had a phone session with her the other day. She seems to represent the feminine side of non-dualistic teaching(my words – not hers). I found her to be delightful. At one point I could feel “something” streaming out of my toes. Later, my daughter wanted to paint my toenails. When she got to the second coat she said, “OK, do you want polka dots, stripes or should we do streams this time?” Fun.
ET: Be suspicious when you encounter a teaching that is totally logically consistent and has no contradictions.
JVS: This is true for those who have ‘figured out’ Advaita, or these non-dual teachings. The truth is: If you think you know, you don’t.
One of my favorite quotations for the past 40 years or so that keeps things in perspective is from Plato:
“All that I know is that I know nothing at all”
Even though some may disagree, synchronisities point toward connection, unity, and oneness.
I see in my statement above, it seems like I’m saying I know this to be true. Actually it is an intuitive knowing or feeling because of my experience with synchronisities. I experience synchronisity up to 15 times a week. And I feel something is being shown to me. Something important. Something is being pointed to. And it feels like connection, unity, and oneness. It also feels like love.
While I may agree that synchronisities point to oneness, I’m very skeptical about the belief that shomething is being shown, and that something is important. Sounds like the mind coming in and trying to make somthing out of nothing.
There is a lot of magical thinking in the ’spiritual’ community and that may be part of it.
Noticing synchronisity is one thing, trying to make meaning out of it is another. j
Well maybe it would be better to say something besides suffering is pushing me or leading toward seeking my (salvation). It is showing me there is something to seek. There is a force operating that put me on this path and helps keep me on it. To that person it feels important. The reason I say (that person) is because I am more and more experiencing this person is not me. It is not anything.
Lately I’ve thought of synchronisity as just evidence. Evidence that I’m here, awake , we’re more connected than we think and that some force beyond our understanding is operating. As Larry wrote above…”synchronisities point to connection, unity and oneness.” That’s what I believe.
Re: “magical thinking” I don’t think people can help looking for meanings in synchronistic events when they happen let’s say once every few months. It does seem miraculous! It seems impossible that there couldn’t be a bigger meaning. When it started happening every day with me I noticed that the search for meanings stopped. I could go ahead and attach a meaning if I felt like it. But it would just be a fun little story in my head and it doesn’t seem like my best information comes from there. So, for now, it seems to be enough for me to just be delighted when they happen.
Having said all that, I have to say that I really resonate with what Larry wrote. That feeling of being shown something, even if I don’t know what I’m being shown, is what I experience. It’s like I’m being shown something that is in plain sight but hidden from a lot of the rest of the world. It oftentimes feels like a wink or a “hi there” from Source. Maybe that’s making too much of it. And maybe I just contradicted myself. Oh, well, I’m sure I’ll do that again.
Namaste
Nis:
Q: You eat meat?
M: I was born among meat-eating people and my children are eating meat. I eat very little – and make no fuss.
——————————————————-
Joseph Campbell has said, that he thought eating meat is actually more spiritual than being a vegetarian. Life eats life.
Spiritual or not people are going to eat what they eat.
The reason it feels I dont eat meat is because
1. It causes suffering for millions of animals.
2. It causes great amounts of [water and air polution.]
3. Eating meat is a tremendous waste of food. It takes 10 to 15 pounds of grains and vegatables to produce 1 pound of meat. It also is a tremendous waste of water beside poluting water.
4. One is eating life by eating grains, legumes, vegetables and fruit.
5. Right now people are clearing out the rain forests to make grazing land for cattle.
6. It is believed that there are many herbs and other natural substances that can help to cure and heal disease that can be found in the rain forests but we may never know.
But like I said people are going to eat what they eat.
Michael Brown mentions synchronicity in the consequences section of the presence process — although maybe he doesn’t use that exact word, that is how i am remembering it right now.
when i notice that my experience seems to have synchronous events i guess i take it to mean or its a clue that i am in the flow and connected to something larger than the small ‘me’ i think/feel i am most of the time; whereas when those events aren’t happening or i’m just not able to recognize and notice them, i guess i can take it to mean that i am separate and i begin to ‘feel’ separate. (and usually feel afraid, no terrified–of death?)
but now, from what i’m taking in from seeing francis lucille and then john sherman (in a short span of time), experiencing or not experiencing synchronicity (or noticing or not noticing it) doesn’t really mean anything. i’m trying to remember that because i feel separate more often than not.
i admit that i feel less fearful and more connected when i am able to notice it (synchronicity). i don’t know why, it just feels good. but i’m not trying to make a religion out of it either.
not sure if i’m making any sense…
btw, good to see larry and joy again at john sherman’s on sunday.
namaste
~mf
I also agree synchronisity feels good. A part of the universe is revealing itself.
In the 1984 film Repo man the Miller character states that while many people see life as a series of unconnected incidents, he believes that there is a lattice of coincidence that lays on top of everything which is part of a cosmic unconscious. By the way my name is Miller.
But one has to remember even though synchronisity is pointing to something we may not understand,but feels good, it is like most everything else. It comes and goes.
I am looking for what doesnt come or go. And I look for that by looking at me as often as I remember. By doing this I now see that what I used to call me is’nt me at all. It is a character that has no real existence. I watch it do things, think,feel, worry suffer, even feel happy. But it is not me. Thank God.
OnceChris told me one time that Francis Lucille told him that there are three stages of synchronicity.
1. Fully Indentified: Synchronicity is very rare and unusual.
2. Beginning to wake-up: Synchronicity starts to happen and becomes a regular occurrence.
3. Fully Realized: Synchronicity is happening all the time.
That is saying that ‘everything’ is synchronus, we just don’t see it.
That means that what ’should’ be happening is ’supposed’ to be happening, and what ’shouldn’t’ be happening is also ’supposed’ to be happening.
I would call the quotes of Eckhart and Nis to be a coincidence more than synchronicity. Call me a number 1.
I think I’m a number 2 but that may be beside the point of seeing this person I used to identify as me, as not existing. By the way OnceChris just emailed. He was recently married. FormerLarry
What’s the difference between a coincidence and a sychronous event? Also, what does fully identified mean?
E, I understand this question is for J who wrote it, but I would like to take a quess.
Fully identified means fully identified as being a personal self. Consciousness is impersonal untill one identifies as a personal self. Then consciousness is identified. It’s what most are taught to do and usually end up doing.
I think the difference between a coincidence and a synchronous event in the way J thinks, is a matter of degree and maybe what is being pointed to. If the odds of an event occuring is 1 in less than 100 or 500 (or whatever number one assigns), then it is a coincidence. If an event or a number of events occuring is 1 in 100,000 or more then it may synchronous event.
Then theres always the (spiritual?) If an event that repeats points to a spiritual principle or is suggesting how to change one’s life for the better, then that is more likely a synchronous event.
I dont agree with the difference of coincidence and synchronisity but I do agree with what being identified means. J excuse me for guessing the answer of a question that you will probably answer. But it will give me the opportunity to see how wrong or right I was in understanding a part of how you think or see things. L PS. I dont see anything as being random.
Fully Identified – as in one being fully identified with their thoughts and feelings as being who and what they are.
Difference between coincidence and synchronicity – They may be the same really, but…
I was thinking synchronicity has the quality of several events coming together in a way that ‘happenstance’ seems not likely. There seems to be a quality of ‘how could these things have occurred like this?’ unless there is some kind of mystical force behind it.
Coincidence, on the other hand, would be two or more things that happen simultaneously that according to the law of averages is bound to happen once in a while.
One thing I am seeing from doing The Daily Now is that there are a few themes that occur over and over – they are said by different teachers in different ways but are basically the same idea or theme.
For example: paradox and how two seemingly opposing ideas can both be true, albeit at different times in different ways.
For that idea to surface at the same time between two out of four teachers seems to me like a random chance, coincidence. (The odds are it’ll happen, once in a while). It interests and amuses me when it happens but I don’t give it much meaning.
This is as opposed to synchronicity which would add a layer of ‘maybe there is a deeper message trying to come forth and ‘reason’ for this to be happening, like this’ at this time.
Larry and I are basically saying the same thing. j
I think it’s all beside the point. It’s all mind stuff, philosophy and guesswork. It can’t hurt and it can’t help. At least not to where I and I believe others are going toward and to.
Elizabeth,
On the other hand if you feel or know that what you are experiencing is important to you, like it is to me, than I would humbly suggest to let it lead you to——. You know how much it means to you or not. Now where do you want to go if anywhere??
Thank you both. That really helped. And yes, it’s all mind stuff and guesswork.
MB: ” Faith is the knowing there is a greater power, and if we allow it to take the reigns, it will accomplish the seemingly impossible on our behalf.”
Byron Katie repeats a lot that the “Universe is always friendly.” It will rise up and support you in miraculous ways if you are open.
If you haven’t cleared this path or that one, it will send you messengers to help you along your path.
I have found when I clear a path by digesting (Michael Brown’s word) some old grief or anger some really interesting things happen. As I think about them, I wouldn’t really call them synchronicity but I would call them miraculous.
And if I may add one more thing, I’m being hit pretty hard by messengers. I’m exhausted. It’s almost like the whole world has become my personal Zen Master. Yikes! I guess I’m ready? Sometimes I wonder.
JVS: do you mind commenting on the difference between disassociation and (hope i can write this question clearly) thinking/saying/knowing(?) i am not ‘this person’ i am what is perceiving this ‘person’ or ‘feeling’ (of sadness, lonliness, separation), etc…
i’m feeling a bit confused about not identifying with myself as a person but as…(whatever), with completely disassociating (which from my, albeit limited, understanding isn’t considered psychologically healthy). because i can do that, ‘its not me, this is not happening to me’, like i’m watching a movie until forever but i don’t think that is what is being pointed to (nor does it help after awhile), but it somehow ‘feels’ like it is.
sorry i’m having a hard time articulating my question–its not completely clear even to me. i’m sure i’ll figure out a better way to formulate it as soon as i press the submit button. lol.
i think you have done something similar before but i would appreciate an update. thank you.
namaste
~mf
“because i can do that, ‘its not me, this is not happening to me’, like i’m watching a movie until forever but i don’t think that is what is being pointed to (nor does it help after awhile), but it somehow ‘feels’ like it is.”
If you would, say more about this.
Does “nor does it help afer a while” mean that it helps for a time? When it helps, how does it help? What about it is helpful?
Is it like Larry is pointing to, depersonalization or some would use the term ‘derealization’, which, I think, means the same thing.
Could it be an unintegrated ‘child self’ watching the movie?
j.
hello all
an update on my query:
are disassociation and realizing i am not ‘this person’ the same thing but seem different or in opposition, as in a paradox, or are they two totally different concepts? not sure if ‘concepts’ is the correct term there, but its as close as i can get right now.
MB: “and if we allow it to take the reigns”
Well, this is the real crux of the matter, isn’t it.
The entire quote is: “Faith is the knowing there is a greater power, and if we allow it to take the reigns, it will accomplish the seemingly impossible on our behalf.”
If we allow faith to take the reigns…
Yes, I think you’re right. Good point. j.
Disassociation. The four main types:
1. Depersonalization= Feelings of unreality
2. Dissociative amnesia= can result from emotional trauma
3. Dissociate fugue= impared recall of the past. Confusion about actual identity and the assumption of a new identity
4. Dissociative identity disorder= Multiple personality
When I no longer identify with this person it is not because of severe emotional trauma. By looking at it (putting full attention on me), I somehow become aware that this person (this me) does not really exist. I can not explain how this happens. I have not gotten to a place where this is permanent, but that is what I long for, and so I continue this practice. When I am not this person there is a feeling of great relief and joy. For me it is wonderful to not be this person (this me). If I were to try to explain it, it would simply be, my identifying with this personal self has always been a lie. By looking at this me and sometimes somehow really being it with full attention, the lie becomes obvious. The lie of me becomes the truth of no me.
“are disassociation and realizing i am not ‘this person’ the same thing but seem different or in opposition, as in a paradox, or are they two totally different concepts?”
I think they’re the same concept.
The difference may be a function of when (in life) the ‘dissociation’ happens.
If it happens before the ego forms, then it is a problem; such as, a child being abused and watching it happen from the light fixture. The sense of self is not strong enough to maintain its identity during a stressful situation.
Post ego identification, then realizing ‘I am not this person’ allows for spaciousness to occur between the Self and the body-mind.
Remember, in Westerners a ’strong personal sense of self’ is considered to be ‘psychologically healthy’ whereas in ‘nondual wisdom’ the ‘identified self’ is considered to be a limitation.
Jordan-
Great new look, I love my diamond. And you look very cute and friendly.
And more surpises are yet to come. Stay tuned. BTW, cute is not something I’ve ever been accused of – maybe the form is dissolving. j.
It may be that most (normal) people might believe I’m starting to loose it because I am seriously considering not only am I not real, but your not real and that none of this is real. The only thing that feels real is what is experiencing this dream or whatever this is. That and only that makes us one.
Bob-
If you are still listening… I did my Honour’s Thesis on Plato’s Socrates. It is called “Socrates: What does he know?”
It is thought by many in the academic world that he was being ironic when he said “he didn’t have any knowledge.” I’ve read all of the Plato’s works, many more than once. If you care to have a discussion via email, give Jordan your email so we can discuss off the blog.
Sometimes what I write may sound scary but I dont mean it to be. For many what they long for and fear the most is the absence of themselves. Somehow through my life experiences I got to a point where I no longer fear the absence of me. If we can know who we really are, there is no more fear. There is only unconditional love. Namaste
I forgot to say it was really nice to meet Joy and see mf at the John Sherman meeting. You guys are great. I have to say I love John Sherman. His compassion just shines through and I can relate to his teaching. I know for some it is difficult to understand or do what he is asking us to do. But for me, it is like learning to ride a bike. The more you (look) at the everyday you, the easier it becomes. Sometimes when I try to do it, it takes a while and then suddenly I tune in and think “Oh, there I am”. Then I just hold that attention on me for as long as I can. That can be 5 seconds to who knows. That was’nt a pun. Now there are a lot of videos, ipods, articles and a ebook so no matter where one lives, one can learn this simple method John teaches. John explains, you just do it any time you remember and dont expect immediate results.
One can go to http://www.riverganga.org—www.johnsherman.org or even phone (805)646-0994
yes, really nice meeting you Larry.
I really liked John Sherman. I definitely felt his presence, or whatever it is, when I sat talking to him. I felt something from his eyes, his voice. I can’t really explain it.
With Francis Lucille I felt something really strong from his heart, but can’t really explain that either.
When I met Michael Brown over a year ago, I was pretty much drowning in emotional pain so I couldn’t see much further then the tip of my nose, but I remember feeling like it was OK to feel your feelings around him. It was incredible.
Yikes! ok I feel a little exposed. Mostly because when I look at myself in the videos it looks like I’m turning into a turtle or a frog. It’s not really a bad feeling (I wouldn’t mind being a turtle) it’s just a little disconcerting.
Actually, I think part 5 is the most powerful. I’ve watched it several times and it knocks the socks off my little turtle feet every time.
Joy, I should have given you a heads up. I did ask mf to get permission to use her pic. I didn’t realize you were featured in a later video. Can I use your pic tomorrow? Thanks, j.
Sure. Pick a good shot.
Whenever a questioner would ask Ramana a question he would usually answer with a question.
Who is asking this? Who wants to know? It seems what Ramana thought or felt most important, was to get the person to look at him or her self. For one to experience the feeling of being. For the person to get a taste of his or her youness.
I see [that] as the closest one can come to truth. This sense that I AM or that something is experiencing, is hard to deny. Everything else can easily be an illusion.
So that is what I practice. I do other things like mindfulness, but looking at what seems to more true than anything else, is the main practice.
JVS: People interested in this teaching are comfortable with paradox.
I found that learning a little about physics helped me in being comfortable with paradox. what’s true on one level or magnification is not true on another.
JVS: People interested in this teaching are comfortable with paradox.
Elizabeth said: “I found that learning a little about physics helped me in being comfortable with paradox. what’s true on one level or magnification is not true on another.”
Yes and the more we discover the deeper they become:
“There is a potentially serious conflict between quantum mechanics and the general theory of relativity known as the information paradox.” (Said by someone much smarter than me)
Also if I dare, may I go back to the apparent paradox that Socrates both has and doesn’t have knowledge. He emphatically denies knowledge throughout the dialogues yet proclaims to know the truth on more than one occasion. My personal opinion, and that of many others, is that he was “awake.”
Why does some concept have to be this or it’s opposite? Why can’t it be both? From are limited human intelligence we dont even know or dont know that we dont know. Maybe human beings would be better off, trying to not figure things out and just find a practice or meditation that works for you.
Oh yes, we can’t help it. We have to try. It’s probably about fear and control.
Larry,
I’m just being who I am.
I have recently been working on mindfulness or being mindful as I go through the day. Mindfulness seems to be a very close cousin to presence.
It soon became very obvious that I live as if there is a fire at my heels. I try to do 4 to 5 things at once as fast as I can. This type of living is quite uncomfortable and what a waste of energy. No one is after me. So I stayed with each thing I did today. It takes some getting used to. I remember my mother lived the same way. She is finally slowing down because she is getting older and does’nt have the energy to live like that.
This is a big change for me, but I can see it is definitely worth it. I dont want to do things and imagine I’m being chased by a bear. I need to slooow down. One thing at a time. And [BE] with each thing.
I hear what you are saying Larry. Great change for you.
I have seen some notable changes in my life as well.
Today I went to a book signing/party (he was just published) at the cat haters house. I had a great time, we laughed and clinked our wine glasses.
Then I made him sign my copy like this.
Dear Joy,
I will not kill your cat.
Love,
Martin
Then we both laughed some more. We even hugged good-bye.
I feel like my life, for the first time in my life, will not be really hard and miserable. Now THAT is miraculous.
Larry said: (referring to being a vegetarian, up above somewhere.)
4. One is eating life by eating grains, legumes, vegetables and fruit.
“Vegetarians are just eating something that can’t run away.
Do we want to be goats or tigers?”
~ Joseph Campbell
MB: Faith is trusting that everything happens as part of God’s unfolding plan…
Well, in my life, this is (below) where I have to really trust that everything happens as part of God’s unfolding plan…
I can really see how my children screw up their kids (maybe because I did such a good job of screwing up my own kids)
I can’t really say, “hey, are you kidding me, can’t you see what you are doing?” (Because I want to continue to see my grandkids, if you get my drift.)
I give them subtle hints but really that’s all I can do, along with being the best Grandma I can be, of course.
I have to trust that these “seemingly” unfortunate events that happen to my grandkids are part of a bigger unfolding plan.
Joy quoted Joseph Campbell: ” Do we want to be goats or tigers”
Actually I’m not interested in being a goat or a tiger.
What I am interested in doing as far as this physical (reality) goes, is causing as little suffering to sentient beings as possible. Causing as little water waste and water and air polution as possible. Wasting as little food as possible. Maybe that can help reduce some of the human suffering and starvation in this world. Helping to reduce human disease/suffering in this world.
For that I’m willing to be a goat rather than a tiger. We need more goats and less tigers.
I dont know if the above are my ideas or ideas that are being transmitted to this mind but they do feel right. Of course it is a lot easier to be a meat eater than a vegan. Also most of us grew up eating animal products. We associate animal foods with love. With being taken care of. It’s really sad.
Burning or burying people that die, seems to be such a waste of food. How can we justify that as we torture and slaughter millions of animals each month?
I fear if I keep up this discussion I’ll be moderated, but if I may leave you with one last thought from Joseph Campbell.
He believes we are all tigers living as goats (It’s from a wonderful little myth.) Oh and also, as long as we are still human we will be imperfect.
If anyone wants to continue this discussion with me off blog, email Jordan.
I do agree. We do live as limited beings when we are actually the one. We are the divine. It seems if we realized we were unlimited beings, we would cause no harm. We would live for other sentient beings. We would live from unconditional love.
Hi Jordan,
I love that writing by Kip on the front of the Compassion Works email- the left side bar. “Become the scent”- AWESOME! I was wondering if you might have Kip’s email? I’d like to ask if I could have permission to use a quotation from the writing in a yearly calendar I make.
Thanks so much, Jordan!
Shannon
I really like “Become the scent” – as well
Nis: “A bundle of memories and mental habits attracts attention, awareness gets focalized and a person suddenly appears”.
But what is the experience or feeling of that? We really dont know who we are. We do know what it feels like or the experience of it. What I can point to is some of the qualities of (me) like the feeling of being, emptiness, awareness. But for the subtle experience of being (me), there is no way to explain it. You would have to be (me) to appreciate it, to know it. It would be like trying to explain my experience of the color blue. It can’t be done.
But it’s all good. You dont need to experience me. You have you to look at and experience. You can do it right now.
Jordan Bridging from above
MB: Faith is trusting everything happens as part of Gods unfolding plan….
Thats strange because it is not what I read MB say. What I read
MB; In present moment awareness completion does not mean we are finished; it means arriving at a point in our journey where we are able to accept that we are 100% responsible for our life experience.” Maybe I read the wrong quote
Then FL: Now if there is no doer, no devotee, no instructor who is walking the gradual path.
Who is mistaken?–Who is claiming anything?–Who is asking any questions?
It seems in the quotes I read by MB and FL there is an obvious difference of opinion.
MB is implying that there is a (we), you, me and everyone that will get to a point where it is accepted that all of us are 100% responsible for our life experience.
Fl is saying there is no (we), you, me or anyone. If there is no we, [no individuals exist), how can (we) be responsible for anything?
Isn’t FL saying today, in a nutshell, you are either awake or you aren’t.
Fl is talking about awakening and in his disciption of awakening he implies -you drop your last limitation of idetification as a seperate self and merge into the sea of love.
Then he points to who is there. Who is left? A devotee? No. An instructor? No. So who is there? Once you awaken you are no more.
So who is there before or after awakening? No one. It’s always like that but it can not be seen before awakening. I believe to assume there is a seperate (me) or (we) before awakening is a false assumption. I believe that person is for now, caught in the story and believes it is real.
I think he’s saying more than that. He is trying to describe what awakening is.
Oh, wait, I think it’s FL’s way of using logic to get you to come to the conclusion that you already are awareness, you just don’t know it, or you’ve forgotten or whatever.
“Enlightenment is the absolute understanding that you are not a person.”
Good thing I studied Wittgenstein, but this still blows my mind.
Joy, “Enlightenment is the absolute understanding that you are not a person.” I dont know exactly why but I get it. It’s becomming more and more obvious.
It seems a good place to start is to assume your thoughts (about who you are, what reality is, what God is, etc) are lying to you. When I consider matter, space, time, phenomena are very likely illusory, how can I depend on thought to show me truth.
Thoughts and beliefs may lie but we are talking about FL here. He uses logic and intelligent investigation to get to the Truth. At least that’s what I get from him so far.
Joy and Larry, you’re doing great. Keep it up. Thanks, Jordan
ET: What truly needs to be known (burp!) or done, is known…right now, when it needs to be known.
FL: In other words, understanding that you are not a limited entity, and feeling and living in accordance with this understanding.
Nis: From moment to moment, the little I need to know to live my life, I somehow happen to know.
And my answer to all of these is (from what I am going through now is) …if I can just let go of the reins.
I have this feeling, belief or whatever, that if I let go completely I will disappear. Kinda tough to let go, I start gripping with my knees.
FL: These answers may seem intellectual to you.
They seemed far less so when I saw FL in person. I think he’s kinda like Socretes. Everyone thought he was just another Sophist but he really came from the heart and really just wanted to help the people of Athens that he loved so much.
I think it is really perilous being a teacher. So much misunderstanding by everyone including myself. I don’t know how they do it.
It seems some people have something (to be for-to live for), families, children, mates, relationships. Even FL is married with chidren. OnceChris has recently married. I have a mother who is retired in FLA. I guess thats something. That and suffering in other ways.
Maybe thats a few reasons I am not so afraid to “let go completely”. The beautiful I have in this life is this connection to the divine, to this oneness. I admit I wish I had a relationship with a person (another me), but I do feel this connection to that. And maybe as they say, I am that.
When most people walk down the city street, they see houses, trees, cars, people, etc.
When I walk down the city street, I see the same things they do. The only difference is they believe these objects are real. I believe they are a mirage, an illusion. Very much like the objects one sees in a dream during sleep. It seems are brains and our senses have the ability to filter out any hints that what is being seen is illusory.
Certain psychochemical drugs or chemical compounds like mescaline, lsd, certain mushrooms disable this ability of the brain to filter out this illusory factor. For me the world starts to look unreal like a picture or a cartoon. I am not suggesting anyone take these. There are ways to see this world as an illusion without drugs. I think at first one needs to admit the possibilty that this is an illusion/mirage.
ET: But what is truly needed is always there…out of that state, in which you seem to have disappeared as an existing entity.
I have been operating from a very different place for the last month or so, however I seem to have one foot off the bus.
It seems I am at the edge of the chasm and I’m afraid to jump. I have twice now,last night being the latest, that I have woke up (in the middle of the night) and my mind is very still, I start to go into this very pleasant (but completely uncharted area, then I screech on the breaks and pop out out.
I’m starting to feel a little like I’m in purgatory. I guess it feels more like each foot is in a different world.
Maybe you just get so tired of hanging on that you just let go.
Anybody?
Joy,
It seems like whatever is happening in a spiritual sense, will eventually be completed. I dont know if that is clear. What I’m saying is if it was happening to me, I would’nt worry about it. I believe in the unconditional love and grace of what is. [The divine self.] I would ask it for help to take you where you need or want to go.
MB: The earth school is the grandest hall of mirrors.
I understand the concept of “the hall of mirrors”.
The earth being a school I understand on the level of physical or material life. As far as it being a school for the spiritual, I’m not sure because I have heard other teachers say things like:
“The temptation to avoid freedom through the santification of struggle is very attractive. Struggle in time does not invite liberation. Life is not a task. There is absolutely nothing to attain except the realization that there is absolutely nothing to attain.”
I’m not saying I agree with the above. Concepts confuse me when different teachers seem to disagree. That is why it is better for me, to just practice a method that seems to help rather than hang my hat on any particular concept.
Thanks Larry, your words are comforting.
Then Larry says:
“That is why it is better for me, to just practice a method that seems to help rather than hang my hat on any particular concept.”
I think there is something to what you say. (Although I tend to agree with MB over many) Sorry to mangle Joseph Campbell again but he says something like “Enter the forest where there is no path.” He also says something about, “If you are on somebody else’s path then you are not on your path. ”
Also, StillnessSpeaks has some great video of UG Krishamurti. I think he’s hilarious. I had never heard of him.
Nis: You insist that your world is independent of your mind.
JVS: Again. If we really knew or understood this, what difference would it make?
Not sure if I can communicate this properly or even if I understand it but here goes.
If “I am” is not a personal “I am.” Then it is more a “I am all or I am everything. We ARE consciousness, we ARE life.
If we are not the personal beings that we have always thought we were then there really isn’t any death.
Doesn’t that make all the difference in the world? Doesn’t that turn your world upside down? Doesn’t that blow your mind, literally or figuratively? Yikes!!!!!!
“Nis: You insist that the world is independent of your mind.”
This quote has been sticking with me. I think this is IT. It is haunting.
The mind has merged with the world. No. Consciousness has merged with the world through the mind, which itself is the world.
It’s like eating peanut butter and thinking I’m not the peanut butter; until it turns to fat, which then it is me. And I carry it around thinking I don’t want who and what I am. But I was never not it.
The lens I’m looking at the world through is the world.
hello my friends. it’s been a long time since i have written but i still read my daily now each morning and have been taking in the blogs…just hadn’t felt the need to write for awhile…until now.
my understanding of these non-dual teachings is that they are grounded in realizing unity/our innate divinity through acceptance of what is, non-labeling, and becoming the “witness” instead of “attached” and “identified” with one’s thoughts/emotions.
my confusion of late has arisen when i attempt to understand these teachings and their implications for my relationship.
it would appear to me that wanting a commited relationship with a man is a desire and a form of attachment; however, i cannot deny that i do feel very deeply that i want to share my life with someone. i sometimes feel very lonely b/c it seems all my friends are married or in serious relationships and i am not.
any thoughts/ideas on marriage/relationship as it pertains to non-dual wisdom?
Namaste.
Traci
Traci,
I’m not sure how wanting a commited relationship with (another) has something to do with non-duality. The only thing that comes to me is, this apparent state of being seperate is not who we are. We are really one, but seem to be seperate. This need to share your self with another is a reflection of the need to merge or return to the all-the one. So it is a natural need or urge.
@ Traci and Larry
Clink (of the wine glass)
I do have a thought about your confusion or suffering about not being in a relationship, now, however.
What is happening now is; you are not in a relationship. To want something other than what you have right now causes your confusion or suffering, not the fact that you are not in a relationship. I really have found this to be true across the board, and I believe it is what most of the teachers say.
Of course, much easier said than done. I still struggle with what really is, all the time, it’s a big one. Don’t be too hard on yourself. (From the Queen of being hard on herself.)
Byron Katie is a huge help in this area (and “The Work” is very accessible) She really helps to open your eyes to reality, I think anyway.
Michael Brown has a ton of stuff about relationships on his website.
Namaste
I
JVS: What does it mean to trust that everything that is happening is unfolding as part of God’s plan
It means that you now know the voice of God and how he chooses to commuicate with us. You suddenly realize he has always been there and maybe you feel a little silly or embarased by the simplicity of it all.
How about the word ‘everything’. What does he mean by the word everything?
I think it means that whatever apparently is or apparently happens, down to the smallest nuance, is not random. Just like a movie where every frame has been edited and approved. The way it seems to work is there is a first cause or causes which cause some effects which become more new causes for more new effects. This process goes on and on in an exact and specific way so that everything that apparently happens has to happen exactly as it does.
Nis: “In matter of daily life the knower of the real has no advantage: he may be at a disadvantage rather: being free from greed and fear, he does not protect himself.”
I’m sorry, may I go back to Socrates again.
Socrates was completely free of greed but he was well aware of the greed in others. He gave advice to his closest friend Hippocrates.
So if you are knowledgeable consumer,
you can buy teachings safely from Protagoras
or anyone else. But if you are not, please
don’t risk what is most dear to you
on a roll of a dice…”
Plato, Protagoras
God, I guess I’m disagreeing with Nisargadatta Maharaj. Oh well, I just can’t think of a disadvantage to knowing the real.
Sure, you may get thrown to the wolves, but is that a problem for someone who really knows the real?
Nis: “In the matter of daily life the knower of the real has no advantage”
I can see how that would be true but I feel it is also beside the point and does’nt matter. The knower of the real (if I understand what Nis means), does not care what apparently happens in daily life because he knows it’s a dream.
I’m having this dream. I can’t remember who I am, but in the dream there are humans, which I am one of. A few of these humans claim to know who or what they really are.-Cosciousness/Awareness.
I see it but I’d rather be it. I have a deep sense that this human character is not who I really am. In the dream there seems to be more pain than pleasure. That seems to be one of the reasons I want to wake up or at least wake up in a sense, while I’m dreaming.
Well, apparently Nis still had compassion for others who were still stuck in the dream or whatever you want to call it.
Nis ” his life is constant divesting oneself, sharing, giving.”
So I guess you do still care about what happens to those people still stuck.
Nis: “Don’t you see that the Supreme Reality is what makes everything possible? But if you ask what use is it to you, I must answer: ‘None’.”
Well, I think he is being Nis. When you ask the question, What use is it to me?… it is obvious you are still stuck in the dream or the ego or whatever.
I think I understand more clearly now. When he says “daily life” (maybe a bad translation) he maybe means the egoic life.
In the egoic world there is no advantage to knowing the real. It will not make you rich or healthy.
If the Supreme Reality is what makes everything possible obviously there is some use to it. Kind of the ultimate use?
I dont believe this Supreme Reality is of any use to me except, to help me see that I (this personal self-this ego) does’nt exist.
To (me) that feels like an advantage. I guess it depends on one’s subjective experience.
Thanks for the reminder jordan:
JVS: I think he is talking to people who have travelled a long way to meet him to find answers for their lives. In those days, it wasn’t as simple as watching a web cast with Oprah and Eckhart.
It seems like the amount of effort I make helps to deepen what I receive.
Like pilgrims going to Canterbury and walking the labyrinth.
Now we can drive there and be back home for dinner!
William
Larry says:
“I don’t believe this Supreme Reality is of any use to me except, to help me see that I (this personal self-this ego) doesn’t exist.”
You say it like that use is almost insignificant.
Or did I misread you?
FL: “If we still believe that we are a limited personal entity and we notice such a thought, we should attempt to find its source, the ego.”
Wow! I didn’t really get it that my fear that “if I let go of control I will disappear” came from the ego. But of course it does. Because it will disappear. Ego is scared. Ahhhh wow. Yes, ego is very scared.
I’ll have to thank it for the good job it has done so far but it is no longer needed.
oh, I feel a lot of grief…. bittersweet, like a relationship breaking up….
I cant remember the 3 types of thought Francis Lucille identified in previous daily nows and is continually referring to.
Can someone kindly share them with a brief description if you remember?
Blessings,
Traci
1. Practical thoughts, which are useful in conducting our
business or our daily life. For instance, I need to get some gas. These types of thoughts should not be suppressed. Once they have been given due consideration and the required steps have been taken, they leave us spontaneously.
2. Thoughts related to the ultimate, to our understanding of the non-dual perspective, such as, I am already that for which I am looking. These thoughts come from the ultimate. If we welcome them, they purify the mind from its dualistic conditioning and eventually take us back to their source. They bring about clarity and foreshadow the bliss which is inherent to our real nature.
3. Thoughts related to the notion of being a personal entity,
such as desires, fears, doubts, daydreaming, and other kinds of
wishful thinking. Some thoughts of this third kind appear
innocuous and are difficult to detect at first. A strong emotion that produces suffering and disharmony, such as jealousy or fear, can easily be detected. On the other hand, we may indulge pleasant thoughts for some time without noticing, such as imagining yourself vacationing on the beaches of the French Riviera.
It is a common error to consider any kind of thought as an
obstacle to self-realization. Only the thoughts in the third category are obstacles to knowingly being the absolute. There are two ways to deal with these thoughts as they arise:
hi jordan
thanks for the recap; i think i needed it too. in regards to the third description of types of thought, does this definition not include creative visualization, law of attraction, etc? i have had experiences,(unfortunately not recently)of being very specific in my ‘thought’ to create a particular outcome and it occurred. of course, the desired event i am referring to could have occurred despite my ‘positive thought’ (for lack of a better term) but it doesn’t feel or seem like it.
i’ve been wondering, in general, are nondual teachings useless for achieving or having things/goals/relationships/career, etc in the material world? that is why i think some of Nis’ followers ask the question ‘…of what use is this to me” even if what he is saying is true. in other words how does it make their lives easier, happier, better, more peaceful, etc. i mean, really, what is the point?
i can totally relate to Joy’s fear of total surrender.
i was watching Mooji on the website http://www.nevernothere.com, under videos…great site btw…anyway, he was talking about letting go of all attachment and learning to simply “be” in the moment versus “doing”.
i felt this huge surge of discomfort and then witnessed my mind saying, “what would i become if i didn’t accomplish things? this can’t be wise advise? i don’t want to end up not doing much w/my life?!”
very interesting stuff. practiced mb’s “being w/o condition” and just felt into the “feeling” and it dissipated shortly after.
but i still feel a bit confused and agitated when i think about just being rather than doing.
i realize there’s a fight in me (ego) that cant understand this idea mentally and gets frustrated.
I think it is helpful to remember that we are dealing in paradox and paradigm, here.
Peter Fenner addresses this in the Radiant Mind book pretty clearly and directly. I think he says something to the effect that when we live life from a nondual perspective, which, of course, includes duality, then life becomes lighter, more pleasant and our experiences seem to show up differently.
On the other hand, if we seek the nondual for that purpose then we’ll confound it – i.e. create resistance and expectation so it won’t happen.
It has to be true that people are initially attracted to Eckhart, for example, because they believe that their lives will get better. Totally missing the point he makes about it’s here now, and there is nothing to do or get.
I think my position is, there is no point to this but what the heck it’s better than what was and sometimes still is. j.
I envision living on this plane in this way, and it helps me a bit:
Let’s say you want to buy something. First you need a coin, a physical form of currency, and because this coin is in the physical it has two equal and opposing sides. We can call them light and dark or male and female or future and past, take your pick of duality.
We get really preoccupied with the coin, the way it flips back and forth from light to dark, past to future, we worry about the form of currency it is and whether its value is going up or down. And, you know, that dark side makes us seriously uncomfortable so we expend a lot of energy trying to always land light side up.
What really matters about the coin; though, is that we’re supposed to buy stuff with it and the stuff we buy here is human experience. Now, the higher part of ourself is doing the shopping. It throws stuff into our cart of life with some kind of menu in mind. We then pick that stuff up and say “how the hell did this get in my life?” and toss it out of the cart. It throws back in a similar product.
But, we do have another choice. We can say, “Hmm, interesting, I’ve got another crappy relationship in my cart. Wonder why?” At which point our higher self responds “I’m glad you asked, it’s part of this feast of love I’ve got going on, I know it looks raw and unappetizing now but we’re going to cook it up and make something wonderful. Trust me, a’ight?”
So we trust in the plan and stroll along with our higher self as we go shopping. But we can only shop consciously when we are in the now, otherwise we are in the dark or in the light or in the past or in the future, not really aware of what’s on the shelves around us.
Balance, for me, is a coin poised on its edge. Hard to do, but easier with practice and worth it in awareness. It stops time, which is pretty cool. When I can’t manage the feat, when my cart is cluttered with stuff I can see no purpose for and don’t like anyway, I trust that even if I don’t understand why something is in my life, I chose it for a reason. If its in my cart, its good for me. And when I get that balance back, I’ll know why. Maybe.
So, that’s my analogy. Needs a little work.
Why do I got the pissed off icon? *whine*
Glad you asked, about the icon. The way I understand it is that the icons are chosen according to email addresses and some magical (dual or nondual, I suppose) formula used by wordpress.
I would prefer that people use their pictures because I think it could add a level of familiarity. To do that, I think you have to register with WordPress and then upload a picture. There is no charge to register with WordPress.
Carol, would you look into that and report back? Maybe with a picture.
I’m sure you and Traci both would do better with pictures, although not sure about Larry.
j.
Carol: Really, really great analogy. I don’t think it needs any work!
Then:
MB: “We are all conditioned to fear death.”
JVS: ” It that is true, then we should be able to uncondition it as well. I don’t claim it. Not after the flight home last night. ”
I got a really good laugh out of this. I needed some comic relief. Thanks JVS
I find that I feel MUCH less fear about anything that could happen to me but I feel like I’m a nutty, nut case when it comes to my Grandkids (the ones 3-7 years) The tweeners 12 and 13 I don’t have the awful fear with. I can only guess I’m relieving something from my past at those ages. Actually it’s more than a guess it IS that. Aren’t I just the lucky one. God. I’m having a hard time “digesting the fear” because I do have to protect them because they are still little, but I hover like a hen with her chicks. The six year old is VERY in tune with my suffering, pretends he is hurt, hides from me etc. Most of the time I can see through his game but yesterday he was pretending to be drowning, and I almost lost it. Well. that’s my life right now in a nut shell.
And if I can put Carol’s analogy to work. They are in my cart, must be good for me. I’ll get my balance back…. I hope.
I kind of like my icon. Joy and mf have seen this face. Do you guys think I should stay with the icon or try a picture. I dont wamt to freak anyone out. L
i saw AMMA yesterday. got my hug!
she also caressed my cheek while gazing deeply into my eyes. i heaved dry sobs…
later after meditating,i watched her tirelessly hug the hundreds of people who were there. i had been there nearly six hours and she had been hugging nonstop (she doesn’t even stop to pee). i wondered how my life would have been different with that kind of unconditional love being demonstrated to me constantly, especially from my mother. not possible of course (i’m a mother too!) but that yearning longing is still there, unable to be fulfilled.
but man, that hug was so…there are no words. a 30 second hug from Mother lasts an eternity.
namaste
~mf
mf- Gave me goosebumps.
I think Michael Brown would say “that kind of unconditional love” is available to all of us, all the time.
Namaste my friend.
Larry,
I love your icon.
Traci-
To me, it sounds like you are very brave.
The greatest thought the most nobel “doing” is to ask the question and then have the presence and stillness of mind to listen and receive the answer.
Joy said:
“I think Michael Brown would say “that kind of unconditional love” is available to all of us, all the time.”
….. But in the meantime, I might have to go get a hug myself. I think she is giving them out again Friday night.
Joy: yes, you’re right, AMMA will be giving hugs on Friday starting at 7pm. but be sure to get there early to get a ticket. but i’m sure she’s going to hug everyone in any case. it’ll be an all-nighter. i’m thinking of going again and taking my son, maybe i’ll see you there!
larry: i think you’re icon is cute! but a photo of you would be nice too…
Testing picture.
Hmmm, carishii is Carol, which is of course, me. Probably not as pretty as Larry; but, then…who is?
hi jordan
you’ve mentioned ‘the ride home’ a few times in your comments…maybe i missed it, i don’t know, but would you mind saying what happened on the plane ride? if you feel like it, that is.
i’m also curious about the teacher training you attended. feel free to say anything about that as well (what you learned, experiences, etc).
thanks
mf
Regarding the ride home (Denver to Dallas): The pilot said he put on extra fuel because of the storms which grabbed my attention. Sometimes when flying at night it seems very erie with the vapor streams, darkness, and bounces. I scared myself by thinking ‘this would be it’ and was fantasizing what it must be like to die in a plane crash, or breaking up in the air or whatever. I thought it was a premonition at the time but my wife said it wasn’t because it didn’t happen. (She was smiling when she said it so not sure where she’s at on the outcome.) I do fly quite a bit and am not a ‘white-knuckler’ but once in a while let the mind go to the morbid.
More important, thanks for asking about the training. You can learn more about it at http://www.radiantmind.net. Peter does a teacher training and a radiant mind training, which I’m sure is great.
What this training is focused on is being at the ‘results’ level, which means there is nothing to do, nowhere to go, nothing to experience, it’s already here. Same as Eckhart and others say. It’s crazy. There is something happening but it’s hard to talk about and point to. You might ask, “What’s the ‘it’ ?” That would be a good question.
There is a ‘nondual transmission’ at the ‘results’ level that awareness can be aware of. We would sit in groups and talk about it. These are conversations in which there are sentences in which there is no subject or object. It is weird. The first weekend I totally didn’t get it but the past weekend I (think) got it, and it was very nice.
Peter is teaching experientially, which means that he didn’t explain much. Some. It’s like: “Don’t just do something, sit there.” There is a manual to read. The other attendees are very deep in the process so it is good in that respect.
I am trying to think of a way to do this with the tele-conferencing. Which we did do that, actually, but I’m sitting with putting it out there in a little different way. I think when I do ‘nothingness’ it’s really that: ‘nothing’ and I’m not sure that is what is being wanted or needed.
ET: ” You can come to an exotic place like this, which is not exotic if you live here, and it’s not exotic if you spend a few weeks here.”
My son and his wife went to India on their honeymoon. My son said the best part was the plane ride home.
I heard it can be life changing, however.
I don’t think it was for them, hard to say. I suppose it can push the sensitive even deeper into the ego for protection.
The best mantra or word to say and feel in (any) situation is thankyou.
Thankyou
MB on death.
One can stop being afraid of death by experiencing not being a body.
These bodies are born, live and die just like all biological forms.
These bodies are like receivers-radios-tvs for who/what we are. When the receiver is destroyed, the transmission is still operating. We are the transmission.
Actually, I talked with MB about what if would do if he were on a plane and it were going down. I think I’ve asked all of the teachers I’ve hosted that. “You’re happy now but how about in crunch time?”
MB gave me the answer that seemed the most genuine.
He said he’d want to be fully awake, alive and facing it so that at the moment of impact he’d leave the body in full awareness.
My mother-in-law is a born-againer and I believe she’d be smiling and waving her arms in the air. I haven’t asked her because she doesn’t fly much and who knows really.
As for me, I’m divin’ under the seat! j.
I just did a thought experiment, where the plane is going down and I WILL die.
My first sadness is for my young grandchildren. I don’t want to abandon them.
My grief right now is coming from when my mom was absent from us three different times when I was a child. It was pretty much like she had died, but it was repeated 3 times.
I think I abandoned my own children in many ways, playing out my history.
Major grief in the jaw. I just sat here crying. Whew, feel better now. Enough for now.
All that from Jordan’s plane ride. LOL
If I was sure this body was going to die within the next few minutes, I’m not sure how I would react emotionally.
Since I have identified with this body for most of this lifetime, I might revert back to that identification. If that is what happens I would feel fear and I might panic. I might start repeating “I dont want to die” or “help me mom. Help me god.” The best thing about this (if it happens that way), is it would be over pretty fast, although it may not seem like it.
Oh I see. I mispelled my name. I gotta work on that.
MB: Even though we do not discuss death openly around the dinner table, especially not our inevitable approaching experience of it, we still provide a chair for it in the midst of all occasions.
For example, when someone is late and we become concerned, what we are really afraid of is that they might have encountered death on the way.
MF: Yes, upon reflection the statement above is true for me. but when someone is late, i not only feel abandoned (as if they had died and left me) but also i fear that I am dying and will die soon too. interesting.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
JVS: He (MB) missed dinner at the NDTT retreat last weekend. The topic stayed on suicide for quite a while and it became very uncomfortable for me, at least. Maybe that set the stage for the flight home.
MF: the college that i work part time at, has had 2 suicides in as many months. its a school where the best & the brightest in the country come to study. connected to NASA, JPL, etc… there is an email from the president of the school announcing the death and then a comment that student services are available for anyone who wants to talk, etc. i think suicides are fairly common on campus here. everyone seems to take it in their stride. i’m not sure how to take it.
If I knew I was going to die in the next few minutes, I might revert back to identifying with the body out of habit. Then I would feel FEAR and probably would panic. I wont know for sure untill if and when it happens.
I really hope to get beyond any fear of death of the body [before it dies].
Suicide is on the rise as well as thoughts of suicide and death. As we approach 2012 the end of “time”. Every day there is less time. Time is required to practice avoidance. If there is no time then there is only the present moment. The present moment is just to painful to live in for the majority of the planet. The present moment has arrived. There will be no pretending about knowing this teaching either you do or you don’t. The present moment will be the judge of that. That is why some call it judgement day. Just-is will be handed out by the universe.
It seems like Nis is answering my
post(s) of june 14th. Well 4 days later is’nt bad. At least (he) heard me.
Nis: “When you see your dream as a dream you wake up.”
I see this life as a dream but I’m not there all the time. Sometimes I forget and think this is real. I want to establish being in that knowing all the time while I’m dreaming.
Presence or oneness,
When I allow it ,it is when I avoid it ,it is. It requires no effort, demands no standards, and holds no preferences.
Being timeless it sees no path to tread, no debt to pay. Because it sees no right or wrong it does’nt recognize judgement or guilt. It’s love is absolutely unconditional.
HELP
I have no idea how to get a picture in of me. I went to snapshots and wordpress. Not a clue. Can someone walk me through the process?
I’m sure you have to set up a wordpress account.
After you’ve done that click on ‘Your profile’ on the left hand column about 2/3s of the way down.
That should open a page with ‘My Gravatar’ on it. That is where you upload the picture.
Carol, does that seem about right?
Thanks Jordan.
Hi Joy,
In wordpress you need to go to your weblog (I haven’t actually blogged anything, I just set one up), go to my account in the upper left hand corner of the page, scroll down to edit profile and change the gravatar on your profile page by uploading a picture. Once you change the image in there it will automatically appear on all your posts here.
If you have any trouble, feel free to ask me, I’ll help if I can.
Good luck!
That sounds exactly right, Mr. Shafer.
“Mr. Shafer,” I like that.
Larry, the votes have been counted and you’re next.
Had to change my name a bit. oh well.
I’ll have to get a picture taken so soon.
MB: on death
The way I used to see death.
I thought I was this body/mind and so the only way to be (exist), was by keeping this body/mind alive. I think thats the way most see it.
I had to see that life or beingness was actually who I am and so the death of this body is just getting rid of baggage. I am beingness with or without this body.
Joy,
You can change your name back to Joy by going to your profile page on wordpress and scrolling down to where it asks how you want your name to appear. That’s how I changed mine back to Carol from carishii.
Thank you for all the help. I will try that.
MB: on death
“The way I used to see death.
I thought I was this body/mind and so the only way to be (exist), was by keeping this body/mind alive. I think thats the way most see it.
I had to see that life or beingness was actually who I am and so the death of this body is just getting rid of baggage. I am beingness with or without this body.”
I agree that we are beingness but disagree that our body is “baggage”. For me it’s more like a car, a vehicle for navigating this particular experience.
Although mine has dings and dents and scratches in the paint, trouble with one headlight and a battery that requires the occasionally jump; it is wonderfully expressive of me and can communicate the beauty of my soul. My body has given pleasure, carried my children safely, and brought me to wonderful places. I know I will miss it when its gone.
I guess it is purely subjective depending on what one’s experience of body consciousness has been or is.
For one who’s body is paralyzed from the neck down the body may seem like baggage.
Like I said it depends on one’s subjective experience.
Nis Today: About love.
From where I am right now it seems that people, children, animals, whatever…. reflect myself.
It seems to be a big mixture of anger, humor, grief, fear and love. I don’t know if you get to the point where all that is reflected back is love. I think “they” say you do.
About death: I must have resolved some issues because my grandson said today: ” Do you want to see me drown?” And I said “Sure” And he went through several different “looks” of drowning as I watched. And then he said. ” Is that gross?” And I said “Kinda” and then he stopped and moved on to cannon balls and back flips.
Sidebar: Michael Brown AND Eckhart Tolle were both in a dream I had last night. This part was funny, I was standing in front of Eckhart and he took my right hand in his (he had very white kind of puffy fingers) and showed me (and verbally told me) how to shake hands, in a humorous way, because of course I knew how… but for some reason I had not extended my hand to him.
OK it doesn’t sound funny, but it was in the dream.
Does anybody read Michael Browns Q & A section.
Really funny yesterday. Blah, blah, blah. LOL
ET: “In many people it manifests as almost continuous desire to be somewhere else.” “It” means life or life experiences are never enough.
I know people who always are going somewhere else or looking foward to being some other place.
I have never understood that. I agree with the saying “wherever I go, there I am. Working on spiritual growth has nothing to do with where I am. Also traveling always seemed like more work than fun.
I like what Nis says about love. Loving one person and not loving anyone else always felt wrong. I would much rather love everyone. That feels right.
Larry said:
“Working on spiritual growth has nothing to do with where I am.”
I’m pretty sure you have something here. Most of my spiritual growth has taken place in the backyard of my son’s house. No need to go to India.
Oh and did a lot of growth on this blog. That is really weird. I did a lot of spiritual growth in cyberspace.
Jordan said:
“These are conversations in which there are sentences in which there is no subject or object.”
This is interesting to me because in dreams…subject and object are the same. I’ll check out RadiantMind.
Working on spiritual growth is always about me. I’m working on experiencing who/what I am. What seems most important is to settle the issue of identity. To really see who/what I am. Even if that means this individual personal self does not exist and it has never existed. It seems it is a figment of the imagination of consciousness. When I see it for the illusion it is, I am no more. Then it becomes obvious what is. What is and me are the same thing.
Joy, you do realize this entire blog is “blah, blah, blah”, yes?
Words can never be experienced but sometimes they point people in the direction they need to go. So I would’nt say this entire blog is blah, blah, blah. Of course a lot of it is but, a lot of people need to blah, blah, blah with each other. People need relationship. At least were not gossiping.
Words can be experienced, Larry. I’ve cried over beautiful poetry and laughed over funny stories. I’ve engaged with souls who have been dead for a thousand years through their words. And I’m very grateful they wrote the world for me through their eyes. Just as I’m grateful that you and everyone here are willing to share yourselves through writing with me.
I take a dim view of spiritual work/growth/progress. I just don’t want to take myself that seriously. For me, life is lived through “blah, blah, blah” over coffee, laughter is my definition of “present moment awareness” and kindness is my religion.
Which is to say, I didn’t find that post in Michael Brown’s Q&A section funny at all.
I think Michael Brown is one of the kindest men in the world. For me, he is this wonderful archetypal father figure who tells the truth. It doesn’t get much better then that. But fathers aren’t always nice.
Telling the truth to someone has the ability to wake them up. What is kinder then that? Helping someone to wake up is the kindest thing you can do. His bluntness has opened up new paths for me many times. I don’t agree with everything Michael Brown has written but I will never disagree with him for telling the truth, even if it may at times sound rude or unkind.
Saying “nice” things doesn’t help sometimes.
I happen to think the truth is really funny. We so rarely hear it.
For me, this place is anything but blah, blah, blah. I have worked through some really heavy duty stuff because of this blog.
It’s just so great when something like this happens here. There will be disagreements and it is also a place where we can work through them, if we stay open. I don’t think that is blah, blah, blah. Life is messy. Don’t you love it?
“I take a dim view of spiritual work/growth/progress.”
This is obviously a projection.
It is both true and not true.
The question is if you’re able to look at it as about you – totally. No execeptions.
If yes, then go back into the feelings that this thought or belief stimulates or is stimulated by, and investigate that.
If no, then let it go. It means nothing.
ET: “The only ultimate and true satisfaction you could ever find is finding and being totally yourself.”
John Sherman in a nutshell.
It’s just for me, I was buried deep, beneath years of rubble. Lots of excavating. I’m piping down oxygen as I work.
Carol, the way I see it, certain words can evoke a feeling in people like a comedian telling a joke but the feeling they experience is within them and not within the words or joke.Just like when one falls in love with a person,the love is in the lover and not in the other no matter how it seems. All one’s experiences are within them.
The Dali Lama is always saying “kindness is my religion” I think we both agree with him.
Taking a dim view on spiritual work/growth/progress because you dont want to take yourself so seriously, is in no way better than one who takes spiritual work/growth/progress seriously.
Each feels and does what he/she needs to do at any particular time.
Hello – I’m an observer, not usually a contributor.I think the most important part of Tolle’s excerpt is being overlooked. Just after “The only ultimate and true satisfaction you can ever find is finding and being totally yourself”, Tolle goes on to say, ” That’s the true satisfaction that everybody is looking for”.
Now – read the word “everybody” as two words, every BODY. As humans here on earth at this moment in time our only satisfaction is as he says …. but I think we’re all coming to understand that we’re far more than just a body.
I can’t wait to see what icon I get!
Susan24
Interesting icon … I’m both cranky and silent!
Susan24
At times I have to take myself seriously. Then there are times I dont. It seems like I dont have a choice.
That is why no matter what someone is doing, I understand as far as seeing that is what they have to do. That does’nt mean I condone criminal acts. I do want criminals taken off the street where they can do no further harm, but I dont want them treated badly or punished. I dont believe that helps reform them. It makes them angrier.
It’s funny but I was just watching [Satsangs Dialogues with Francis Lucille] and this ia a direct quote from FL. “You can be serious and have a good time, at the same time.”
Susan I dont think my icon is that bad. It is cuter than I am but I believe people want to see us in the flesh. It is more intimate. Or maybe with me people want to see what this crazy guy looks like, who talks about having all these experiences of seeing his future in dreams, lots of synchronicity and hearing friends talk about him while he’s dreaming and they’re talking. I do feel blessed but I need to keep searching. Maybe for that which never comes or goes. It will happen (the picture) tonight if all goes right.
hi all
i’m having an ‘interesting’ weekend. learning, experiencing a lot. very joyful and painful/bittersweet. spent friday night/saturday morning with Amma. it was a special night, as Amma was representing the Divine Mother – all that unconditional mother love that i have to admit i yearn for.
i brought my son. he complained but enjoyed it as well. and he got a hug! all he could say afterwards was ’she smelled good.’ at first he was worried that the hug would hurt, cuz he said everyone looked dazed and out of it after she hugged them. lol. i assured him that it didn’t hurt, they might just be blissed out from the hug. he looked at me doubtfully, but trusting continued in the darshan line. he seemed a bit dazed after his hug and wanted to sleep (after all it was 1am by then). so as i went to receive mantra and blessings he went to lie down. later, i couldn’t find him. i got worried (slightly) but found him sitting up front with my friends wide awake watching Amma! and he didn’t pull out his psp even once! (i had promised him that if he came and was ever bored he could play computer games all night if he wanted). he did fall asleep later in my arms, something he hasn’t done in a long while (he’s very tall). beautiful. we made it home around 5am.
on saturday, i had an appointment and attended a 4 hour writing workshop. i wasn’t tired at all until the workshop was over. i guess all that source divine energy kept me going.
namaste
~mf
to Jordan: oh, i forgot to mention i saw Greg Lawson at the Amma event with his beautiful wife and their two children. i noticed that he is listed as a one of the Teachers in the Daily Now. i met Greg a few years ago when he used to facilitate an Eckhart Tolle presence group in LA. i had already read a couple of ET’s books but it was the first time i had met anyone else or a community of people that were interested in his work. it was a difficult time for me as i had recently relocated to the west coast and it was a rough adjustment (well i’m still adjusting i guess). anyway, his group was a helpful and peaceful space for me to relax and just be, even for an hour or so a week. i was truly grateful for it.
mf-
So sweet picturing you with your son. After reading your message I kinda of feel like I went too.
Wow! Lots of things to respond to.
Joy, whenever someone starts telling me about someone else I always wonder why they feel the need to. I don’t know Michael Brown; but even if I did, I wouldn’t say he is like this or like that because my view of someone isn’t who they really are, only they can decide that – moment by moment.
I just couldn’t laugh at someone being reprimanded. I know how it feels. *shrug*
As to why I said this blog is “blah, blah, blah” please read “Let’s not start another group” in the section labeled “writings” on the presence portal website. That explains it really well.
Yes, I think its wonderful to be open; but I don’t believe life is messy. I’m pretty sure there’s a purpose in there somewhere, its just that life has a tendency to not give us what we want or expect. The lesson for me is to stop wanting and expecting anything in particular. But do I love this life unfolding? Yeah, I do.
Larry, I didn’t know the Dalai Lama said that kindness was his religion. That is so cool! Not taking myself (or spirituality) seriously means I got nothing to defend. I’m more peaceful that way. Whatever makes you more peaceful is groovy with me.
Jordan, that confused me, how about I sit with it and get back to you?
Susan, you have the best icon ever! I’ll trade you my picture for it.
Guys, whatever you believe, however you see the world, that’s perfect. I’m on this blog because how you see the world is interesting to me, like a gift, you know? And being able to share my world is a gift, too. But, I don’t expect anyone else to live there.
Carol thankyou for responding and clearing some things up.
Carol, Jordan or anyone,
Last nite a friend took a picture of me. I already have a weblog on wordpress.
when I enter it it takes me to a page that says in large letters —-Weblog. Then it reads “Hello World, Welcome to WordPress.There is nothing on the left side. On the right side it reads the following options: Pages-Categories-Blogroll-Meta. How do I get to the page that says My account so I can go to my profile? L
Carol,
Yes, I agree. The way we see something or someone is really a mirroring of what’s going on inside ourselves.
I find a lot of things funny lately. Just ignore me.
Larry,
I’m trying to figure it out on wordpress. Give me a minute.
Larry,
When I sign into wordpress with my name and password, it takes me to my “dashboard.” Then at the top left, you see
“my account.”
Are you signing in? Carol?
When I’m logged into wordpress my name comes up jjjoy. fffuny.
Jjjoy, ignoring you would be very foolish, you’re a mirror for me
(Carol = song of joy) as well as a pleasure to be around.
Larry, I’m on the same page as Joy, top left.
MB: “Change is death.”
Clink of the wine glass.
i decided to give the MB site a look so i could have an idea of what everyone was referring to, and WOW! he has certainly added a fair bit of content. the q&a section was probably a useful thing for him to put up. he’s probably swamped with emails basically asking the same thing over and over. as for not starting another group, well, i think that ship has sailed.
i didn’t realize until i read it that ‘blah,blah,blah’ was an actual question that Joy was referring to (and not a comment on the general content of the section). it did strike me as a little harsh (i’m sensitive) but i also think MB may have replied in the spirit in which the question was asked. it did feel hard to read, as i could sense the desperation and frustration behind the question, but there was also an arrogance and possibly unwillingness to go within and trust his/her own answers. i’m all too familiar with that problem myself.
which brings me to the question of, if for my whole life i have been dissuaded and forcibly made (often in a life threatening way) not to ever trust myself or what i know, how do i now all of a sudden begin to do that? my experience of being ‘raised’ and imprinted in a very hostile scary environment is that i had to turn that inner knowing part of me off to survive. and now just because i am an adult and physically bigger doesn’t mean that i can switch it back on again. especially if there is no basis upon which to trust it. i.e. it didn’t help me survive (at least not consciously), right? i’m not trying to make excuses for myself (i hope), but it feels like such an awful set-up (upset). i can’t seem to do it (or not do it, whatever the case may be).
or i could be depressed from feeling the effects of a dumb argument that i had with my partner last night. ugh.
mf-
I was also raised in a hostile, scary and really crazy atmosphere. And I knew, from that one and only meeting with Michael Brown that I needed to get to and feel the grief, fear and anger that was stored in my body and “digest it.”
Then nearly a year later, the messengers to get me angry, sad or fearful, in the form of just about everyone around me, started showing up. This blog, all the teachers on it and Jordan played a big part as well. I started being honest and revealing myself. Maybe the blog was just “removed” enough that I was able to do it. I don’t know if I’ll ever really know exactly.
Some of the really deep grief (I couldn’t really get to it consciously apparently) started presenting itself to me in my dreams. It kind of felt that the Universe just said, “Come on, people, we gotta help this one out.”
Because of the men on this blog (MB, FL, ET, Nis and Jordan oh and everyone on StillnesSpeaks)and my bravery in this quest, my ultra-sensitive masculine or weak crippled old masculine (shown to me in my dreams) is FINALLY getting stronger.
Example: Today when my son got home, I felt very different about him (seemed out of the blue) He felt capable and trustworthy. And I felt very different, like I could let him go, because I could trust him.
I felt very calm leaving his house. I wonder if he felt something different.
I’m sure there is more feelings to be felt and integrated but (as you all know, if you have been reading this blog) my son has been “a big one” for me.
mf- you have a really big support group here in the really wonderful men on the right side of “The Daily Now.”
I’m not sure, it’s kind of a “chicken or the egg” kind of thing
but I think I trusted them before I trusted myself.
Oh and Larry, my brother, I’m glad I let you support me as well.
Apparently my feminine issues are yet to be revealed to me. LOL
Joy, I had three sisters. Now I have four. I have to tell you what I really like about you. Your vulnerability and your incredible willingness to put it out there for all to see. Your braver than you think.
I’m pretty – I mean i’m pretty illterate with computers. I finally was able to figure out how to get to my gravator on wordpress. What I dont know how to do is (upload) my picture which is on (windows photo gallery) and (my desktop). This is one of many, many things i dont know how to do on a computer. Can anyone explain it to me like I’m 5 years old.
LOL, if you had any idea Larry how often I’ve used the phrase “explain it to me like I’m 5 years old”.
1. click on “change my gravatar”
2. click on “upload a new image from my computer”
3. click on “browse”
4. a file directory shows up – at the very top there are the words look in followed by a bar. Inside the bar is your directory heading. Usually you begin in “my documents” but that doesn’t matter, what matters is getting to where you want to go which is “desktop”.
5. click on the downward arrow next to that top bar.
6. click on “desktop”
7. click on your picture within the directory.
8. your picture will now replace your gravatar.
9. if you have any trouble with the above steps, let me know.
joy thank you! it was really revealing what you wrote, and helpful to me. i didn’t consciously realize until you mentioned it that nearly all the teachers on the DN blog are male! as i read it, simultaneously i thought/felt of course!
the messengers are truly showing up now. yes, its true i don’t trust men (or women) at all really. ok well that’s everybody! but i do find it humorous that all these male teachers have kind of snuck up on me. i used to be involved in womens spirituality circles for many years and still participate in moon rituals occasionally, but i never would have thought that i would have trusted the voices of so many men. hmmm. this is something to feel about. thanks joy for pointing it out to me — maybe something is shifting/evolving in me after all.
namaste,
~mf
MB: This is because we do not consciously realize change is death, and that ‘death’ is uncomfortable when we resist ‘change’.
JVS: You could also say that ‘change’ is uncomfortable when we resist ‘death’.
I think, for me, I had to realize I wouldn’t really die (or disappear) if I let go of control. It really, really felt like I would disappear. Holding on to control meant I would never change and I knew that. However, I don’t remember one instance of letting go. I think it was many, many small deaths. (there will probably be more) I was also really afraid of what I would “see” if I crawled out of the rubble. I was also afraid I would lose everyone around me. I was really afraid I was going to have to go live in a cave. Just last week it felt like I was turning to stone, it was really hard to walk at a normal pace. That was pretty scary. A lot of the really weird bodily stuff has subsided… for now anyway. I don’t know what is in store for me next. The fear of change seems to be gone…but I’ll keep you posted.
oh one more thing. I encountered a family member who REALLY didn’t want me to change and knew all the right buttons to push to keep me down in the rubble. I stayed away from that person as much as I could. Oh no…. She’s my feminine issues!!! I think I want to rest a while before dealing with them. Oh great, here we go again.
Carol I’m already having a problem with the first step. This may take a little time. When I right click or left click
‘change my gravatar’ I dont see any thing that says ‘upload a new image. I think your also assuming that I know anything about computer lingo like brouser. Explain it to me like I dont know where anything is or what most of the words mean. Im an ignant 5 year old.
Carol, I uderstand if this is going to be too much for you and I can try to get my older 13 year old cousins kid who is supposed to be a computer whiz.
Carol, maybe i am not seeing what your seeing because i have vista home basic. you may have another system. if thats the case i’ll try to get someone to help me work on my computer. right now i have the picture on desktop, documents, and w photo gallery so eventually i’ll get it done. I think were supposed to be talking about loftier subjects than this anyway. Thankyou for your help.
mf and Joy this male-female is very hard to relate to. I am a classic younger brother with a first born sister. We grew up together. My mother is also a first born with a yonger brother. So both my female role models were very strong. I never felt men were better or stronger than women. So when we talk of the teachers of the DN I probably would’nt notice or care if they were half women or all women. I love Gangaji. I just feel they happen to be men because J could relate to what they teach, and not their gender.
The male bias on The Daily Now was brought to my attention by a reader a couple of weeks ago. My first reaction was, of course, defensive – an internal contraction, and thoughts of, “No, no, that couldn’t be right, these are just teachers I like to read, etc.”
As I sat with the feelings I realized that even my not seeing the male bias on my own was, in fact, a form of male bias.
Again, thoughts such as “female teachers don’t go as deep,” “they don’t speak to me as clearly” is more bias – I think.
I have had one female teacher offer to let me use her book and I declined. I did read her book and liked it (got a nondual transmission when reading it) but it didn’t open me up to more insights – I didn’t feel stretched by it.
I really like Gangaji but I haven’t read her and don’t know if she’d be open to letting me dole it out a paragraph at a time. (Anyone want to ask?)
I’m not at all drawn to Byron Katie’s teaching – which means, I suppose, I should use it.
On the other hand, Eckhart is amazing – to that, we all agree. Michael Brown is a friend and Francis Lucille, a friend of a friend. I could drop Nisargadatta but if I don’t read him in this way, I probably never will read him and it’s interesting to see the interplay between him and Eckhart; or should I say, him and his reincarnate – oops, didn’t mean to let that one slip out. j.
I’d prefer that you don’t drop Nisargadatta.
The male/female teacher thing didn’t bother me because(in my opinion) these guys obviously have enough female in them. And as for people who are really balanced in that way, their particular gender is a mute point for me.
I may have said this before but I really like Pamela Wilson. I believe she may have a book out sometime in the near future. She may be a nice balance of the feminine for the Daily Now.
Namaste
Wouldn’t a female experience of non-duality have a similar vibration to a male experience of non-duality precisely because they have gotten past duality? In which case, what difference does it make what gender the teacher happens to be?
Good Point!
Concerning death again, the way I deal with it is by saying to the infinite, the divine, God.
“I would like or love to feel at peace concerning the eventual death of this body.”
Now next is the important part. After saying that cleary and with the feeling of desire, I completely detach from this issue. After that there is only the will of God. Like the AA saying———–
“Let go and let God.”
Human beings are much more like ghosts.
Each lives in a body of which none are the host. The trauma, the drama, the pleasure, the pain. The stories seem real, but it’s all just a game.
So dry your eyes and worry no more. None of it’s true except who you are. Have the experience but know it’s not real. Was it me who fostered this deal?
I guess it does’nt matter any longer as the weak grow weaker and the strong grow stronger. For when it’s all over and we are awake we find we are one,so just change your take. And always remember to rise above, for behind it all is love sweet love.
Elizabeth said:
“The male/female teacher thing didn’t bother me because(in my opinion) these guys obviously have enough female in them. And as for people who are really balanced in that way, their particular gender is a mute point for me.”
Yes, this rings true for me. But I’ll check out Pamela Wilson.
Jordan:
LOL about computer, yes sometimes a new computer can do it.
I like Byron Katie, she seems real and balanced to me. I think I would like Amma too. Big heart.
All the other woman I’ve looked at seem really odd to me. Perhaps it’s some sort of trust issue I have with women, but they seem really girly to me. Very quiet and proper. And they all seem to have this affected way they look around the audience. Gives me the creeps.
Excuse me. I have had a friend upload my picture on my gravatar. So far it has not appeaed on my posts. I dont know what else to do. Can anyone help me? Joy you have my phone number. If you call me I’ll give you my login info for wordpress.
Since my picture is (already on my gravatar) on wordpress, Im ok with giving out my wordpress login info.
It is user name—lrmself
My password is— venice12745
There must be someone out there who can make my gravatar picture appear on my posts.
I guess I should include my account is
http://lrmself.wordpress.com
THANKYOU
hi all
Michael Jackson has died. My heart and everyone I know who has grown up with him (through his music) since he was a boy is heartbroken. when i lived in chicago as a child and young adult, my family regularly traveled to gary, indiana (where MJ was born) to visit friends and distant relatives. we always felt close to the jacksons there. its hard to explain how people you’ve never met can impact your life so deeply…it feels shocking, this sudden change. i hope it is true that he has returned to One from which he came…
in peace
rest
namaste.
I know what you mean about Michael Jackson. Farrah Fawcett died too. I heard about them both at the same time and thought, “How interesting. An angel and a star gone home.” It’s really something to me when two icons pass away at the same time. A while back a friend of mine asked me who died around the same time as Princess Diana. Noone came to mind. It was Mother Teresa.
around the time of princess diana’s death, in addition to mother teresa, a month later in october john denver died then sonny bono in january. it was a personally poignant time for me as well since my sister died of cancer in September that year too (the week after an uncle did, also of cancer). and to top it off, i was in a greek tragedy playing a priestess of death! (during the run, the sister of one of the lead actor’s in the show died in a car crash). whew! it was positively trippy.
i know people are being birthed and dying continuously but that moment seemed particularly ripe for deep change personally and collectively.
i also noticed that farrah and MJ transitioned so close together. not sure what it means, but it does have an impact. i find the collective outpouring of grief very interesting too. i sense that when people feel safe enough to cry in public and spontaneously dance with strangers in celebration and commiseration, compassion flowers. can you smell the perfume?
MB: “Life and death are one here”
“Those who are not busy being born are busy dying” Bob Dylan
Larry-
Very nice picture. Good to see you.
Michael Jackson: I always liked him and felt a lot of compassion towards him. The last 15-20 years it has been sad and kind of amazing to see him contort himself into something that had no resemblance to when he was a child. Sometimes I would cry when I saw him as a child.
It’s almost like he did on the outside what we do on the inside, well, our outsides reflect our insides too but not to such an extreme in most cases.
Perhaps he has found peace.
I feel like all the anger, rage, grief and fear are being held tightly in my physical body. When I let go of some deep grief it kind of feels like something has changed in my physical body. It actually feels like an untwisting. Interesting.
It’s interesting to find out Michael Jackson was heavily into pain medication and his exes father (Elvis) was also heavily into pain meds. I think they both may have died from the same thing. Also MJ’s heroine was Elizabeth Talor who also was addicted to pain meds. Pain medication does not only numb physical paid but also emotional pain. I guess there is a lot of that going round. It is why MB tells us to feel our emotional pain rather than sedate it.
John Sherman will be having his monthly meeting on Sunday,
633 kensington,
230pm to 4pm,
Santa Monica, California.
He asks you arrive 5 to 10 minutes early.
So if your in The LA area, check him out.
The practice he teaches has slowly made a difference [for the better] in this life.
hey Larry — might see you on sunday @ John Sherman.
Joy, do you think you’ll make it again?
also, Larry, i’m liking the pic!
Carol said: “Wouldn’t a female experience of non-duality have a similar vibration to a male experience of non-duality precisely because they have gotten past duality? In which case, what difference does it make what gender the teacher happens to be?”
i wonder. does it make a difference? on one level, it would logically seem to be that it would not — on the Ultimate level, that is. As Francis Lucille says, ‘in the Ultimate reality’ it probably doesn’t matter one iota (i say probably because i haven’t personally consciously experienced ultimate reality to know for definite what it is).
but on another, more relative level i guess, i feel that it does matter. i can’t quite articulate why yet, and maybe it only matters for me. but i think form serves a purpose, of some sort. although i may not know exactly what that purpose is. we’ve all shown up here in different types of bodies, ethnicities, races, genders, etc…so i assume all that diversity serves a purpose although i can’t say exactly what it is. therefore, i think/feel form does matter in some ineffable way. in other words, the teacher (can’t think of a better term) may have gotten past the duality of gender and form but we, the students (people) haven’t.
for instance, i remember being told that there being a time rather recently in Buddhism where it was believed and taught that a woman could never achieve enlightenment. that she would have to wait and hope to reincarnate as a man in some other lifetime. similarly catholic nuns are thought to be inferior to the priests and must go through them to get to god. and so on and so on.
i get a lot of feminine teachers elsewhere so it hasn’t really bothered me that Jordan has a preponderance of male teachers on DN. i’ve noticed it but apparently didn’t need to comment on it — which is rare for me as i am very sensitive to things like that (and i didn’t know that he thought that women teachers don’t go as deep). i figured that it’s Jordan’s blog and he can highlight who he wants. if i don’t like it i can unsubscribe. in addition, as a woman of colour, i have to adjust all the time to being the only person of colour in the room in a non-dual, spiritual setting (for lack of a better term) and i have learned to overlook it to a certain degree. in an oppressive racist/sexist society, to survive i have to pick my battles. however, i have to say that i would LOVE to have more poc in the room as students and to have a nondual teacher of colour (particulary AA) would be great. Best of all (for me) would be to have an AA WOMAN teacher. now that would be interesting. to have the form be so close to mine as a teacher and role model makes it (whatever ‘it’ is) seem more possible and plausible. it’s such a great contradiction to what society tells us. also, knowing about and being in the presence of (the form of) a ‘person’ of colour who is on the level of MB, FL or ET would be barrier busting for many people who as of now don’t see this as a reality for themselves.
i’m not suggesting that Jordan do anything differently. i’m just noticing what came up for me in regards to his post and Carol’s.
namaste.
mf,
Is it not possible that you are the teacher you seek? And the reason you are in the form that you have assumed for this incarnation is to contain the vibrational resonance of duality for others in similar form? Does it not stand to reason that we are who we are, where we are and when we are to be a bridge between form and function? Body and spirit?
Just a thought…
namaste back atcha
It’s funny mf. When I think of a person of color it’s about what color eyes, hair, or skin. Put us together and were like a rainbow. What if people with green eyes and red hair felt awkward around people with blue eyes and brown hair. We dont even need to think about skin color. We first have to get past the eyes and the hair color.
I believe the reason we are made to look different in [many] ways is to see through that to the essence of who/what we are. I do think everyone was made to look different for a reason. When you start looking within, you know one thing for sure. You are [not] what you look like. One more thing I see. Whether one agrees with me or not it is perfect. Everything is already perfect. Peace
mf- I think some of the wonderful AA poets and writers come pretty close to being teachers and are certainly really great role models. And then there is our President. Sure he is only half AA but how cool is that. And I think “spiritually” speaking he may be further ahead then he lets on.
Mooji… I think he is Indian but he has dreads, does that count? Just playing, but I do really, really like him. Have you checked him out?
About John Sherman… Yes looking forward to it. mf- You might ask him about the AA spiritual connection.
PS
I think our fathers are supposed to teach us how to be in the world. It just may make a difference if our teachers are male. It works for me, that’s all I know.
Michael Jackson and pain meds: I totally get it. I had an operation when I was 35 and morphine made me really sick so the doctor gave me Methadone. It was incredible… nothing mattered. The only problem was I couldn’t function on it. It was a huge chore (in the hospital) just to walk to the bathroom. I asked the doctor to take me off of it after a couple of days. He said.. “Why” I said: “Too good.” However, I thought about it for months after.
I totally get heroine addicts, pain med people. I accidentally (I thought I was at a new al-anon meeting) sat in on a Narc-anon meeting. I cried through the whole thing, every story they told about just wanting to numb the pain rang true. Of course I used sex, boyfriends and then alcoholic husbands to distract me from my pain… oh and food…but it’s all the same thing. Just numb the emotional pain.
Glad I found a better way.
Michael Jackson and vitiligo. I heard Deepak Chopra today talk about his vitiligo and that abused children are much more at risk.
I also have vitiligo, my skin color is light so it isn’t that obvious but check out my hands next time we meet. I’m more of the opinion that really sensitive people get it. (Our skin is what protects us from the outside world.) So symbolically, it just gives out, perhaps because it has had to work extra hard. I don’t know really, just a theory.
I worked on my grief about it with a facilitator at Esalen during the Byron Katie workshop last year.
She told me it was my radiance shinning through. Perhaps.
I care only about one’s essence which is the same for all/one. As far as a teacher, I don’t care what race, nationality, color of skin, hair ,eyes or even height. I know people take that stuff seriously but it seems so superficial to me. And yet mf, I can understand your feelings about these matters. There are many AA’s and women that have deep feelings of hurt as to how they have been abused. I do believe the one true teacher/master does’nt come in a human body. That teacher is within/out us all. Look for that teacher.
Mf- Just found Bhagwan Ra an Afrikan Mystic/master, Videos online with Mooji.
mf- oh just discovered Mooji is Jamaican.
Re: Michael Jackson’s plastic surgeries. I often wondered if he just “got” that these bodies are forms that will pass away. So if you’re “playing/reshaping” something that won’t last anyway, what does it matter?
I’ve thought the same thing about kids with tatoos. I’m a massage therapist and have noticed that if a person is under 25 and they don’t have a tatoo it is pretty rare. Do these young people not have the need to preserve something they know is not their Self?
Hmmm- I don’t think he was that aware. From my experience… I color my hair. My natural color right now is about 50% gray. There is a part of me who wants to just let go and be the old lady that I am and another stronger part that tells me the story: “You look really washed out with that gray and you just look better with dark hair” (If I color my hair, I’m young?) It makes absolutely no sense but I do it anyway. Oh… and I have a daughter who is a hairdresser and does it for free.
I don’t have any tatoos but I tell my Grandkids that I’m going to get 360 tatooed on the back of my neck because I’m getting really good at Halo 3. Always makes them laugh.
I think tatoos are popular now just as long hair was popular 40 years ago with young people called hippies. It’s about con-form-ing for peer acceptance.
I believe Michael Jackson was a different case. He had some gender issues and issues about staying a child. He had the money to have the plastic surgeries.
I dont think young people in the US think about mortality or their form as being temporary but it is always going on subconsciously. Humans are the only species that know they will eventually die. That is one of the main issues that drive them toward spirituallity or religion.
FL: “In the same way, we have the opportunity to knowingly experience our real nature when a mentation merges with consciousness.”
Can’t wait till he’s back in town.
MB: “In this world death is a detergent that cleanses life of time-based illusions.”
Perhaps one day we can charter a plane and all go down and see him. (hey, I still have my 1,000,000.00 bill on my ceiling) Wouldn’t that be hilarious. Just show up, all of us, in South Africa? LOL
OK, Well lets see. The death of the body certainly gets rid of the that time based illusion.
He may be talking about the death of the identification with the ego. With that goes a lot of illusions the biggest one, of course, being that you aren’t your ego.
Right now, just this second, I really understand that the ego doesn’t die it just isn’t driving the car anymore. I guess the grief you feel is that it has been in control for so long, it feels like death. It’s also really hard to pull it’s fingers off the steering wheel. It really is a unruly child. Sometimes I had to carry my Grandson into his room for a time out (if he was hitting his brother or really acting out.) He would grip on to the door frames or anything he can hold onto as we walked into his room. I really think this was a reflection of what was going on inside of me. My little me was really gripping on door frames. Wow. God I love The Daily Now. Thanks Jordan.
wow. how juicy. lots of great insights that make me think/feel. thank you everyone!
Carol said: Is it not possible that you are the teacher you seek?
yep, even as i was writing i ‘felt’ the same thing–that i am the one i’ve been waiting for. yeah, i know. but 5 year old me (and maybe teens 20s and now) says while stamping her foot “but i don’t wanna be my own teacher! i don’t wanna!” It would be ridiculously funny, if it weren’t so sad. but i get it. i think.
Larry said: I care only about one’s essence which is the same for all/one. As far as a teacher, I don’t care what race, nationality, color of skin, hair ,eyes or even height. I know people take that stuff seriously but it seems so superficial to me.
yes, i agree with you. it can appear superficial. especially to people who never have to deal with particular oppressions and imprinting in this society/world. and i would never go to a teacher solely based on how they look or what race/gender, etc they are. i didn’t travel to temecula and completely love Francis Lucille and think that! but its also true that until there is true movement in the areas of racism and sexism then, for me, all this spirituality stuff is theoretical and woowoo. this is usually where i part ways with certain practices because they don’t seem to be grounded in reality. it doesn’t have to necessarily be specifically addressed either. i know MB says that it isn’t about feeling better but getting better at feeling, but people need to notice a disernable difference in their lives in order to keep going with any type of practice. at least i do. if a practice or non-practice doesn’t eventually clear, dissolve or resolve some intractable patterns/imprints (that were laid in very early or even in utero), then i can’t commit to it. of course, that may be the first aspect of it (whatever the ‘practice’ is) and then other levels are revealed at a later stage of development but the gradual resolution/dissolution of all the shit families & society puts on us has to be part of it. i am speaking for myself, of course. i accept that everyone is different and their opinions/thoughts/feelings are just as valid.
Joy said: I don’t have any tatoos but I tell my Grandkids that I’m going to get 360 tatooed on the back of my neck because I’m getting really good at Halo 3.
I love that you are play Halo 3! i can’t manage to do any of that stuff with my son and i know he would like me to. and i want to, to be close to him and share his interests/world but i just get bored out of my mind! we’ll have to chat off blog so you can give me some pointers. by the way, it is part of my practice as a parent to give my son one on one attention doing whatever he wants, he gets to take the lead (for a specified period of time) and he always wants to play video games. so, i have to figure out how to do that and be present.
If you get good we can play online. LOL I am such a geek.
Joy, i will check out Mooji — i’ve never heard of him. Thanks!
namaste
I looked back at that amateurish poem I wrote and felt a wave of embarassment. I’m no poet but at least I know it. I’m a lot better song writer and lyricist. I saw this war movie and I got into the mood of trying to say something in a creative way.
We had some decent poets on this site but I have not read anything by them in quite a while.
I’ll spare you from any more of my (poems). That alone should bring you a little peace.
Larry,
I still remember your spiritual rap song. It was really good. I think I missed the poem you are speaking of. What date?
June 25th. I love to read good poetry. At this time I just hav’nt written any but you never know.
I turned 48 years old today and I want to say something really philosophical about all I’ve learned about spirituality and…and…nahhh…
It’s my birthday!!! Wooohooo!!!
*dances around the internet*
Let there be cake!!!
Happy Birthday Carol!
I just had some Banana Cream Pie at The Apple Pan in West LA after the John Sherman meeting. Close enough to cake for me.
John Sherman says “Look at the me that you are or that you identify as being you.” He says it slowly works like an antibiotic. Life becomes sweeter. He just says to do it and slowly it will happen.
My mind wants to try to describe what happens although I’m not sure how it happens.
As you continue to turn attention around to (you) instead of objects the (YOU) gets weaker and weaker. Eventually the you is so weak it does’nt exist.
Then when you break your leg- you dont say or feel “oh no I broke my leg” you say or think “a leg was broken, thats interesting. You see there is (no you) who has a broken leg-there is (no you) who’s lover has left- there is (no you) who is going to die.
This is what happens when you look at yourself, as often as you think of it. Even for 5 or 10 seconds at a time. With Love
I went to see John Sherman tpday and I told him I was feeling better in general and I believe from doing the process he teaches.
I told him my mental theory of what was the cause. He agreed that something is getting weaker but it is limited to the parts of identity that hurt me.
Like the part that feels it is at stake in this life and so it is fearful. Or the part that is easily emotionally hurt. Or the super ego. The voice that is always saying negative things. In other words the parts I identify with that I dont want anyway.
Well whether it is everything I used to identify as being me or just the parts I want to get rid of, the process he teaches is helping. For me it works!
Joy I forgot to tell you something at the JS meeting today. Last night when you mentioned vitiligo, I remembered last hearing that word fom Michael Jackson 15 or 20 years ago on TV. I even checked the spelling of it because I was’nt sure how to pronounce it.
Anyway today when I got in my car to drive to the JS meeting
there was a Doctor Wittaker answering peoples questions. The first caller I heard said Dr, I have [vitiligo]. Do you know of any treatments or cures for this. Even though I am used to that type of synchronicity, it blew me away.
Larry,
You look like you feel a lot better.
Today was great at John’s meeting. However, I must admit I also love just being on the Westside of LA. I used to be much more of a bi-county girl then I am now. Such great restaurants around Santa Monica. I don’t eat all day so I can enjoy a great meal there. Nothing fancy, but absolutely no wasted calories. ” Great food” is my spiritual blog for the day.
Yeah, I had a piece of pumpkin coffee cake with my Americano. I didn’t know why Oness was ‘forcing’ me to eat it, but now I do. Happy BD Carol! j
yes, HAPPY BIRTHDAY CAROL.
JOY, It seems the less there is of me or the less identification there is with this me, the sweeter life is.
It seems like there is less of me to suffer, experience fear or feel sorry for myself but the part that can experience bliss, happiness remains. This is relly getting cool.
And all this by looking at me as often as I think of it. Amazing Grace. There is definitely something to the process John Sherman is teaching. I understand a lot of people who do this for a time,(I have been doing it on and off for two years, but now I’m doing it daily) agree with me.
FL: “It means to sit free from dualizing thoughts, to sit in being: in non-doing, not in becomming, not in end gaining.
It is very hard for me to imagine someone doing anything or nothing without any thought of end gaining or with a thought of becomming. Even if that thought is subconscious. People usually wont do something or nothing without some thought of becomming or end gaining. Even if they’re not aware of that thought.
Thank you all, very much, for the well-wishings.
J, pumpkin was a great choice, “pumpkin” was one of my father’s pet names for me and I dressed my children as pumpkins for halloween as toddlers in unconscious homage to the spirit of pumpkin-ness.
For my birthday I befriended pineapple with a pineapple upside-down cake and coconut and chocolate with a german chocolate cake. Of course, chocolate, that delicious vibration of the feminine, and I go way back. Coffee, too, is a dear and close companion.
How marvelous it is that so many delicious flavors swirl around in me, providing nourishment and energy. Not least of which, in this moment, the flavors of Shafer, Larry, Joy, mf, and readers nameless but felt and appreciated. Have some me, please, if it pleases you. Enjoy.
Happy Bday Carol!
NIS:
“If you really want to help a person, keep away.
If you are emotionally committed to helping, you will fail to help.
You may be very busy and be very pleased with your charitable nature, but not much will be done.
A man is really helped when he is no longer in need of help.
All else is just futility.”
Joy says:
Oh this is sooo good. And If I may use the relationship between my son and I as an example.
For years, I really, really wanted to help him and I just failed miserably. Even watching his kids this year (although they REALLY helped me much more) there was still a desire to help him out. I wasn’t completely insane, I did make them pay me but there was an underlying current of “helping” at least the first 5 or 6 months of the last school year.
The last couple of months I was going because it was such an incredible journey to make with those little munchkins. AND VERY recently, I don’t think my son NEEDS me any more. The best gift I could possibly give him apparently.
Maybe when you think someone needs you, you zap their own strength. You are saying, “oh you poor thing.” Pretty arrogant as well.
My son and his wife are both teachers and are home for the summer and I am free to sleep in if I so desire. What a year it has been for me!
Nis:A man is really helped when he is no longer in need of help.
All else is just futility.”
This is also very, very Michael Brown. He really wants us to grow up in our own.
I agree with just about everything Michael Brown says except for one obvious thing and I realize a lot of people will disagree.
MB is always implying that we can think or do whatever he suggests or whatevere we decide to do.
I dont see this as being true. If one has the [potential] to think or do what MB suggests then there is a good possibility one will do it. If one does not have the [potential] to think or do what MB suggests then one will not do it. One can’t do it. One can only play the part that was given. Free will or choice is an illusion. This is very difficult to see because as humans (it feels) like we are independently choosing and doing.
If you were able to look at everyone in this world, you would find a large number that could simply not think or do what Michael suggests.
Larry said: If you were able to look at everyone in this world, you would find a large number that could simply not think or do what Michael suggests.
hi Larry
i find what you said about MB very interesting. can you explain further what you feel he is suggesting that others are unable to do? hope i don’t sound facetious – i really am interested in hearing your thinking.
thanks.
mf, I dont have any of MB’s blogs right in front of me cause I erase them after I read them. When MB talks about his (own) experiences I usually can relate-especially about feeling his feelings instead of finding some way to sedaate them.
What bothers me is his use of the words (your responsibility). In other words if you hold or sedate your painful feelings than you will probably have some negative side effects like depression-an ulcer-panic attacks- just about anything. Whatever negative effect you have by holding in or sedating your feelings is completely your responsibility and therefore your fault. You could have chosen to feel your feelings but you chose not to. It feels like he is implying it was your free choice so you deserve whatever the consequences. He uses this type of (logic?) in many ways. Basically since one has free will and free choice one is responsible for whatever consequences one experiences.
I say one does not have free will or free choice and therefore is not responsible for any effects negative or positive one may experience. I say we are not the chooser or the doer. It is like a play or movie where everything happens automatically.
The law of cause and effect is a physical law which basically states if the wind blows against a balloon the balloon will move. To take this physical law and increase it to karma-karmic credit and karmic debt (which MB has done) is not logical and I believe is not true.
I dont think I aswered your question. There are many people who cannot or will not do what MB suggests. They might be in a religion and have a completely different (take on reality and life). They may beleive what he suggests or tells them to do is bs.
They may have been brought up in a way so as to not trust anyone who talks like him or looks like him. This is not their fault. It was a combo of their upbringing, experiences, circumstances, dna, intelligence, etc, etc, etc. There is no one who is responsible, who is at fault, who is to blame.
As profound as Michael’s teachings are they are always quite perplexing, for me anyway. Manifesting or living them seems to imply doing something, yet one of the foundations of the work is not doing. But then it appears that not doing is in fact a doing, depending of coarse on where and when you start. Of course “starting” only applies in linear time. Right?
Larry,
You’re right in that his teachings or whatever you want to call them aren’t for everybody. It just kind of clicked with me and felt right. I had my first really deep feelings of grief in the parking lot of Unity Church after hearing Michael Brown speak. Where the muscles in my shoulders completely relaxed. I had never done The Presence Process, had not read it and I bought Alchemy of the Heart that day. I couldn’t tell you where I heard about him, must have been CompassionWorks but honestly I don’t remember.
I think that there is just something deep in me that trusts feelings over just about everything. And then to come face to face with someone who, I felt, not only allowed me to feel but encouraged it. And that I trusted for whatever reason. Well, my fate was sealed. I think that was almost 2 years ago, yikes. And much of that time was spent not feeling, trust me.
I think what he means by being responsible for our own experience is… if someone makes us angry… that is old shit.
Now we can react, or we can go home and find that feeling in our body and see what happens. Sometimes I just react and make an ass out of myself. Sometimes I don’t react to the person but then bitch about them to a friend. But sometimes…
I don’t react and I come into my house and I feel.. I feel the really deep feelings trapped in my muscles. AND if I’m really, really angry, the easier it is to contain and then feel later for some crazy reason.
Then it’s like something cracks open a bit and the true me peaks out of the rubble. It really does feel like a excavating or tunnel building process. Blow up a tunnel, then spend a few weeks shoring up with new lumber. It really feels like a reconstruction of sorts. Don’t forget your hardhat and a canary might help.
Again, this may not appeal to you.
I’ve been doing feeling work for over 20 years. That’s the part of MB’s work I like. Feel your painful feelings instead of sedating them
What I dont like is being told I am 100% responsible for all of my choices and actions because i’m not. My choices and actions come from a mixture of all my experiences, my circumstances, my intelligence, my subconscious pain, my dna, my history, etc.
This seems so obvious to me. How can one be held responsible for one’s thoughts and actions?
Jeff O, I agree. All there is is doing. No doing is just another form of doing. You cant get away from doing or thinking, At least not for very long. So just go with the flow -think and do. Just don’t blame yourself if your able to do that.
Remember you’re crossing paradigms where all of everything and none of anything are both possible – at the same time.
You’re both responsible and not responsible. You make choices and you don’t make choices. You’ve caused all of it to happen and you’ve caused none of it.
The ‘linear’ view can’t really understand or contain the ‘non-linear’ view.
The ‘relative’ can’t contain the ‘absolute’.
In either case, one thing certain is that we are ‘responsible’ for ‘accepting’ the ‘consequences’ of our behavior whether we believe we ‘chose’ the behavior or not.
The thing to look at is the resistance within ones self that either believes or does not believe either side of the equation. Find out what is in that.
Joy, the teaching that you like about MB is exactly the teaching I like about MB. It is wonderful to feel feelings and express them. Theres nothing like a good cry relieving years of pain. I am definitely not into feeling the feeling and (burning with it). Like feeling them but surpressing the natural emoting. If you want to see what feeling and natural emoting look like, watch a 3 year old. He/she is being natural bacause he/she has not yet learned to feel feelings and surpress their natural emotion by holding back the tears, tightening the shoulders, shallow breathing, etc. I would say surpressing the emotions is almost as bad as surpressing the feelings. Your body wants to emote. But dont give them the satisfaction of seeing you cry. Seeing your vulnerabillity. This is ego.
On the other hand MB telling us we are 100% respnsible for (our thoughts), are choices, and our actions, (and we are going to have to enjoy or suffer their fruits), is reducing us to a single individual entity- A seperate independant self. This is the opposite of non-duality. There is only oneness and not many seperate selfs. Oneness is the cause of all thoughts and actions. Peace
“… This is the opposite of non-duality. There is only oneness and not many seperate selfs.”
Once you decide what Oneness is, then that’s what it isn’t.
There is nothing to hang your hat on. No new set of rules to make-up or believe. j
Think of ‘you are responsible for your thoughts’ as meaning you are responsible for your thoughts as they are unfolding and the consequences of their outcome (if you choose to act on them); as opposed to you are responsible for making each thought be what it is or what the next thought is going to be.
Jshafer: “Once you decide what oneness is, then thats what it is’nt.”
To me that means once you decide (something) (anything) is’nt, then that also is what it is’nt.
I see oneness as being oneness which is to say it is not two. If you wanted you could say once you decide what (anything is), then thats what it is’nt. That would make communication pretty difficult. Whenever anyone says something is this,One could say “now thats exactly what it is’nt.”
JShafer: “You are responsible for your thoughts as they are unfolding and the consequenses of their outcome (if you choose to act on them)”
What if your thoughts are just appearing and you are not choosing to act or not act on them. But you have to act or not act on them. It’s not your call even though it seems like it is. Are you responsible for their outcome then? I think not. Are you reponsible for their outcome if there is no you? I think not.
Like the waves in the ocean the worlds arise, live and dissolve in the Supreme Self. The substance and (cause of everything). Shankara
Jshafer: “We are responsible for accepting the consequences of our behavior whether we believe we chose this behavior or not.
What comes up for me on this is being punished for something I did’nt do or I was forced or had to do. I guess thats the feeling behind the belief. I dont believe I should be punished for what I did’nt choose to do or what I did’nt do. I do see myself more like a puppet or robot that just follows orders with no free will. Although I appear to have free will that is an illusion.
By the way most of the time I apparently commit a punishable act, I try to make sure I get away with it and I usually do. Now MB might say I’ll have to pay for my misdeeds in lifetimes to come. I don’t believe he thinks people get away with anything. I would suggest he look at his own feelings about this. It smells like anger or revenge.
See any thoughts about MB’s thoughts or feelings as projections. Then they are sourced where they belong and can be dealt with effectively.
Yes, when talking about onenes, communication is pretty difficult if not impossible. We don’t really know how to communicate in a world in which there is no subject or object. But it’s worth trying.
The mind wants to understand something, then define it, to then be able to say this is what it is, and this is what it isn’t. That is the beginning of a new Religion – The Church of the Now.
++++
Yes, you are always responsible for their outcome. Even when there is no you and even when there is no outcome.
Who or what resists that?
No one resists that. If there is no you (me) who is there to resist. I must admit I’m not sure how we are describing the word (resonsible)? How can one be responsible-answerable if that one does not exist?
Or there is this point. I am responsible for everything that happens in the known and unknown universe. But if there is no me, no universe and nothing is happening the whole point is mute.
No one resists that either
I think: Responsible = Response-able.
I was thinking: “It smells like anger or revenge” is a form of projected resistance, by someone for something.
No?
I did have a step father who was always looking to punish me with words or a belt. At first I could feel the anger comming like waves off his body and finally I became very angry.
It seems like I want or need to express this anger so I write of controversal ideas almost like picking a fight.
As far as responsibility being the ability to respond, I like that meaning a lot more than any of the others I’ve heard.
So, feeling the ‘need to express this anger’ and letting go of the story about the stepfather would be a way to go even deeper.
Staying with the body sensations generating the feelings as long as it happens.
For no reason.
Larry,
I think this is a perfect example of what MB is talking about.
Larry said: “I did have a step father who was always looking to punish me with words or a belt.”
When you read or listen to Michael Brown perhaps you are seeing or hearing your father…not Michael Brown.
Jordan was my father awhile back. LOL Remember?
Thank you Larry for sharing your thoughts/perspective and experiences. i appreciate it. it made me dig deeper into my own experience. i usually translate MB use of the word responsible into ‘ability to respond’ otherwise i feel i misinterpret his meaning (actually, i translate it that way whenever that word is used by myself or anyone else in all contexts). i know when i’m misinterpreting that word because i can feel myself becoming defensive and blamed.
when i translate responsibility to ‘ability to respond’ versus reacting, i.e. re-ENacting the same patterns that have been handed down through my family for generations, like forever, something in me relaxes and i am more able to take in what he is pointing to. pardoxically, whatever is happening or how i am feeling at that moment can then feel less personal somehow. like it (whatever it is) isn’t about ME anyway. at least not the ultimate reality of me (from Francis Lucille). so i can let go of holding on so tight to (my illusion of) control. then, even if i make a ‘mistake’ it’s not the end of the world. i don’t have to get defensive or ‘take’ responsibility. but if i am clear enough, hopefully, i can respond and not fall into unconscious reacting. i wonder, is that also what being present is?
mf, great comment. j
Instead of saying “you are 100% responsible for all your thoughts words and deeds” why not say you have the ability to respond to certain situation that comes up. I’m not sure I do have 100% ability to respond or even when I do respond or (when I am the responder), I have seen what I call (me) respond to some situations in a positive way and I have seen what I call (me) not respond to a situation or respond in a negative or unproductive way.
Anyway I believe whatever way I do or dont respond to a situation that is the way it had to be. Thus there is no self recrimination. There is no self blame.
“Always remember deep in your heart that all is well and everything is unfolding as it should” Robert Adams
I love the Robert Adams quote.
I think the responsiblity thing is too much of trying to figure something out.
As soon as I see that everything that apparently happened and happens, happens exactly as it has to, then it seen there is no blame as there is no one to blame. The word blame becomes a (nonsequitar?) To me a life without blame (self inflicted or other inflicted) is very important considering my childhood. Things still [seem] to go wrong but now there is no blame as there is no one to blame. This makes my life a lot sweeter. I’m obviously very sensitive to being blamed and I usually will fight back if another even hints at blaming me for anything. Usually by saying “everything happens exactly as it has to.” Nothing could be different than it is, was, or will be.
Yes, love the quote Larry.
Good night my cyberspace family.
The reason I want to figure out {exactly] what responsibility means to me is because when used in the usual or common way most use it, it can cause me pain, scars, and fear.
When used as the [ability to respond], it no longer causes me pain, scars or fear. Thus I want to be very clear on this (new) meaning of the word [responsibility}. Why let this new meaning of [responsibility] be vague or obscure?
Lets pin it down to the one exact meaning that does not hint of blame or retribution.
See July 1, oh the death of the June Blog