Readers of The Daily Now are invited to share their thoughts, feelings and experiences related to the teachings presented.
This is a moderated list and guidelines are as follows:
1. Advice giving is withheld
2. Share from personal experience
3. There is no one who knows
Larry-
This whole conversation has been so good. I went to bed thinking about it, had really interesting dreams, woke up thinking about it.
100% responsibility for our experience.
I think the only thing he means is that our experience is 100% in our heads. It is not occurring out there.
Another thought I had.
I had a therapist once who used to say “It takes one to know one.”
Although I do agree that our experience is totally in our head, we do bump into people who are also projecting, possibly even Michael Brown.
I was thinking Larry, if you see some sort of parental issue with him using the word “responsibility” he may in fact have or may of had some parental issues about being responsible. Of course that also means you have an issue with it, but you already know this.
This take could be completely wrong. But it is fascinating to me.
Jordan?
Most of my life the word (responsibility) had negative connotations. It was used to instill fear.
For instance: ” Remember your responsible for the house. If any thing happens, you’ll be in big trouble mister”.
I decided I did’nt like that word or that meaning of it. Thts why I like our new meaning of the word: responce-able or able/ability to respond. I dont feel threatened by it. It’s another ability like the ability to walk or being able to see. This new meaning does’nt put me at stake. It has no claws.
(This is excellent work, by the way.)
So, now you have two examples of projection.
One was the projection of trying to argue with a father figure, and the second is the projection of childhood abuse onto the word responsibility.
Regarding responsibility, just go with the feeling that is reflected by the word. If it doesn’t feel right then resist trying to change the meaning of the word or understand the word in a different way to get a different feeling from the word. It’s subtle, but that’s like trying to change the mirror to get a different reflection.
Actually, responsibility means all of what we all think it means – and none of it, all at the same time. Jeeez.
The words, explanations, and understandings are all vehicles to avoid feeling. Which is okay but it does not lead to integration and resolution.
Notice the conversation is about keeping it going. Adding more to the story. (That’s fine. I’m not trying to stop that but to just bring awareness to it.)
Think of it as being on a vertical plane where you can go one direction into more story and thought, or the other direction into the source. You can either construct or deconstruct.
It could be that this is a choice point.
You can either 1. keep talking about it or 2. go within.
I’m okay with either because its very interesting. It doesn’t have to be one way or the other. (That is new for me to see that.)
Joy: We are all projecting all the time.
That’s why it’s ‘always’ true that if I’m feeling something it’s a projection. I can either go into the projection (life) or go the other way into the feeling body.
Probably the best question I could ask is: ” Who does’nt like the common meaning of the word (responsibility)? Then I can dive into the sensation that I associate with me.
“I believe I’ll go down to the desert, just to try and find my path. Truth lives all around me, but it’s just beyond my grasp.
I believe I’ll go to the seashore, let the waves wash my mind. Open up my head now, just to see what I can find.” Country Joe
I happen to love the traditional meaning of “responsibility” and I also happen to agree with MB on this one.
In my world, individuals are splintered soul personalities trying to come together; just as we are a splintered species trying to come together. We will do so, either consciously or unconsciously because we are evolving both individually and collectively in all universes, seen and unseen.
When we evolve unconsciously, its a much slower and infinitely more painful process because it occurs solely within what we can sense physically. In other words, we will go through many difficult patterns, repeated over many lifetimes, each one growing progressively more intense, and we go through it baffled as to why this stuff keeps happening to us.
When we choose to reunite our soul personality consciously we truly are responsible for everything in our life. When this is our wholehearted choice and intention, we see every situation we encounter as one designed for healing, for wholeness. Every person we meet, every circumstance is an opportunity to integrate and we do so by choosing the highest response in our awareness. This can also be very painful; but, painful like a medical procedure. We choose it in the name of healing.
When we reunite our personality consciously its also a choice to reunite our species consciously, as one thing leads to the other. When you have individual integrity (integration) you have integrity in every relationship dynamic in which you participate.
In my world, anyway.
Carol, Even though my relationship with the traditional meaning of ‘responsibility’ was advesarial, I can understand your relationship with the word. Obviously the word was not used to scare and punish you.
It seems we don’t agree on the reality of free will and free choice. When I think I know why I chose this instead of that (on deeper inspection), I find I was wrong. The choice was comming from an old childhood feeling and not anything I can call logical or intellectual.
Since you used the phrase “in my world” more than once I felt you were talking about your beliefs only. So I felt instead of using the words ‘We’ and ‘Our’ it would have been more appropriate to instead use ‘I’ ‘Me’ and ‘mine’.
I was going to be finished with this topic but it does really seem that working through our childhood issues and self realization are linked. It is a big one.
Last night I read some really interesting Jungian stuff on the topic. I didn’t search it out, I just picked up my dream book as a little bedtime reading and opened it to this page. (A little freaky) In a nutshell, if you haven’t worked through your childhood issues and come into contact with the vastness of consciousness, he actually calls it the dark side of self realization. Something about it being an avoidance of the pain of dealing with our old stuff.
Anyway, I found it not only fascinating but helpful in understanding the importance of how the two are tied.
FL
“In the meantime, don’t indulge in dualizing thoughts, such as realized and nonrealized.”
OK
NIs: I had to look up “gnani.” Means “the wise” an adjective. Apparently it is being misused as a noun and someone who wrote the Wiki isn’t happy.
ET: In the absence of that, [From yesterday, "That in you responds, because it recognizes itself in what seems to be the outside."] there has to be more suffering or disaster.
Joy says: From my experience, to be in the now, to be with what really is right now, my defenses that blocked reality started breaking down, and with that, came the grief that had been held down. Now, this should not be confused with more suffering, as I see it. True suffering is not being aware of that grief or not being able to get at it.
I don’t know if that made sense to anyone but me but I thought I would throw it out there.
“True suffering is not being aware of that grief or not being able to get at it.”
Makes sense to me.
True not-suffering is being aware of that grief and being able to get at it and ’stay with it.’ j
I think it was MB who said, “Everyone wants to change as long as everything stays the same.”
Yeah that’s that holding on the the reins business that feels so comfortable. Lately, when I feel like holding on to something (meaning manipulating somehow to keep it) for instance: a client, a friend. I pause. I’m starting to say “no” to family members or friends when they ask me to do something and I really don’t want to. I’m starting to say, “OK but that is going to cost you more” to clients.
OK, not all the time, but enough that I am noticing it. It’s a little scary, but not horrible. Usually, it just pops out and then I reflect that, wow, I just told the truth.
This may seem like a minor thing but …. You absolutely could not tell the truth in my birth family.
Yesterday a friend asked me to do something and I said, “Sounds like a nightmare” (driving long distances and standing in long lines is not my spines idea of a good time.) In my past I would have just gone, or made up an excuse.
And then paradoxically, lately I can have a good time doing just about anything that, physically, I’m capable of.
Love Michael Brown and his “Experiencing Death Daily” stuff. I haven’t been paying much attention to it. Really hit me today.
I also agree Joy. Once you feel the pain or suffering it is no longer pain or suffering. Most suffering comes from repressing the pain. Trying to hold it in rather than let it all out. Really feeling it can be enjoyable.
I’m starting to see how much I project.
For instance beside seeing responsibility as something negative I decided a long time ago that lying was a good thing and telling the truth was not.
If I wanted to go and hang out with my cousin I would’nt tell my mother the truth. If I told her the truth, I would’nt be allowed to go. If I lied and said I’m going to the library to study she would let me go and I would get to do what I wanted to. I decided lying was a good thing most of the time. I was also so angry that if I was caught lying I’d say “yes of course I lied.” It was the only way I could do what I wanted to.
Then my mother would say “if there’s anyone I hate it’s a liar. So I lied even more. I figured out later if she can love me even though I lie, than she really loves me. If she loves me only when I’m truthful, than she does’nt love me.
Larry,
I think there is a connection between telling the truth and getting closer to who we truly are. Well, it does make sense…truth and the Truth.
JVS: “EMDR would help. Might as well be pratical here, there is more to do than meditate.”
Yeah, I agree, the alternative is not pretty. EMDR might sound like a “doing” to many, but it seems more like an undoing to me. (from what I have read)
“They” (I think I heard this from Pema Chodron) do say that meditation is the only thing that does not “add” anything to the mix. Your thoughts, jvs?
I’ve never really taken a formal course in meditation so I’m not sure I know what it is. Other than that’s what we are, which who knows what that means really.
In TPON, when Eckhart describes meditating he says to sit in a certain way and then he says ‘or however you want’. Which to me means it’s all or nothing, or nothing and everything.
I think it is safe to say that when Pema Chodron meditates nothing is getting added to the mix but when I meditate, things are getting added to the mix. j
I bought a TM mantra, oh about 15 years ago. I actually started getting some subtle results, for instance: I would be sitting in traffic and I would say to myself… Hmmm I’m not pissed, I wonder if it is the TM?
I practiced for about 4 or 5 months, the transcending “experience” is very pleasant. I was completely ignorant of any spiritual teachings back then and didn’t realize that I had had, at least a glimpse of an “experience” of awareness.
I started getting heart palpitations and decided the TM had something to do with that.
What they fail to tell you as they send you merrily off with your mantra is that, I think, past trauma and grief starts to arise the more you meditate.
Today,sometimes, when I touch really deep grief now, I do get palpitations. (They don’t scare me now) Back then I had no tools or confidence to deal with the really deep grief.
I’ve actually have started meditating again after reading, “consciously approaching vibrational awareness” and I thought, oh, that’s meditating. Anyway, I don’t know if Michael would approve but I’m a “big girl” now and feel like I can modify what he says to suit me.
Just had a thought.
When we are accepting reality as it is right now… we are living the truth.
I don’t know why but this was just really astounding to me when I thought it. LOL Now when I read it seems, just yeah, of course, that’s what everyone has been saying.
“When we are accepting reality as it is right now… we are living the truth.”
I think that’s great. I got it in a different way.
Joy: ” “consciously approaching vibrational awareness” and I thought, oh, that’s meditating ”
That’s good. I think you’re right.
being vibrational awareness is mediation.
As we are being vibrational awareness we are meditation.
Whether we are approaching it consciously or unconsciously.
When we are approaching vibrational awareness we are the meditation that is happening in that moment, as the vibrational awareness that is the meditation that we are, and so on.
Joy: “When we are accepting reality as it is right now.. we are living truth.”
When we speak of reality we usually speak of relative reality. Like I am me-you are you, I do my thing-you do your thing. There is always something to achieve, to better psychologically, spiritually. To improve, to purify, etc. This is usually are perspective of reality.
Then with a [change in perspective] there is absolute reality. In absolute reality we/all is perfect. There is nothing to get better. Nothing to change. No one to grow spiritually. We are eternally perfect.
We are both of these realities. Relative reality-imperfect and Absolute reality-perfect. We just change perspective to see Absolute reality or to see we are both.
MB: We are … entering a vibrational experience that is transforming our entire state of being…
JVS: And then he said “to become a new species.”
Well, if you look at it from this point of view of “the species problem” it really doesn’t sound far fetched:
“One common but sometimes difficult question is how best to decide just which particular species an organism belongs to. Another challenge is deciding when to recognize a new species. This is a question for the biologist who discovers organisms that appear to be different from those that belong to already described species. A related question arises when new data indicate that one previously described species actually may include two or more separately evolving groups, each of which could possibly be recognized as a separate species.”
Interesting..Eh?
Yes, that was interesting.
Nis: All experience is born of imagination; I do not imagine, so no birth or death happens to me.
I find this scary. So he doesn’t enjoy music, a great movie or play? Aren’t these all experiences, from our imagination?
I’ll give up birth and death willingly but music, movies, plays. I mean he is still human right, although is this what Michael is talking about?
A species that does not imagine so has NO experiences?
I’m gonna need some help on this one people.
hi jordan
not sure if anyone else is seeing this, but this comment section is no longer in order of posting. it’s putting the last comments first. its easier for me to read if the most recent comment is last. have you changed it? i don’t think i did (i don’t remember pressing any buttons or setting preferences for this). is it possible to change it back?
thanks!
~mf
FL: “Do you know the knower of your ego?”
It seems to me thats what awakening is. To know and experience the knower. To experience being the knower.
The knower is awareness and these bodies and all objects are within awareness. I lately have started having flashes of seeing this body and everything else as being within who I really am.
If you can see yourself as what your aware of, then you will see that the body and all things are within you. Change your perspective and it can be seen right now.
FL:” Do you know the knower of your ego?”
I see the knower of your ego as being awareness. Knowing the knower is awakening. It is seeing you are awareness. If you are aware right now that is who/what you really are.
Thus the body and everything else you are aware of is within you. Whatever you see, hear, smell touch or even imagine is within you [the knower/awareness]. Lately I have had flashes of this. What can I say? I like it, I love it, I want more of it.
I notice it also mf. It’s confusing. Maybe thats a good thing. The posts are not in the order they are written.
MB: …we gaze upon ‘the effects of this transformation’ and believe them to be the cause.
JVS: “We experience what is happening to us and think it is making us feel a certain way, when actually the ‘causal point’ is the emotional body. In other words, we feel it before we experience it in the physical realm.”
I could have sworn my cat crying and scratching at the window to go out was causing my suffering this morning.
Well, first the obvious, I wanted it to be different. (No scratching or crying)
But after I got up and let him out I realized….it was my crazy fear that if I let him out too early he will get hurt and then from there continues a long fearful story I won’t bore you with.
Ah my little messenger Padawan. A lot of fear, I still have. (In a Yoda voice)
Is it fear or anger that turns you to the dark side in “Star Wars?” And yes, I am really a geek.
MB: ” It appears as if all are attempts at ‘happiness’ are being undermined.
I was just talking to my mother on the phone. I told her I’m working on a decision I made as a child. I’m trying to change it.
It was “I will be unhappy for the rest of my life.” What I did’nt tell her is she was the reason I made this decision. Since she wanted me to be happy, this was the only way I could think of to get revenge for her choosing my stepfather over me and allowing him to hurt me. I made good on my decision and had an unhappy life so far. Many things seemed to happen to make me unhappy [but they were all caused by my childhood decision.] It really feels like it’s time to change that decision.
I declare to the universe that I forgive and give up this revenge against my mother. I am now forever happy. Namaste
Wow… Sounds familiar. I think I had an similar decision to be unhappy because they (my family) were so unhappy. Only very recently have I felt it was OK to enjoy life even if those around me are (or maybe more accurate, SEEM to be miserable)
Perhaps they were never as miserable as I thought. HMMM yes, that does seem true, another projection. They seem much happier lately. LOL Oh boy.
Good stuff Larry. Thanks.
“I declare to the universe that I forgive and give up this revenge against my mother. I am now forever happy.”
Well shoot Larry, now look what you did! I have to go through the rest of my night with a big goofy grin on my face because of your contagious happiness!
Doing the following helps:
I imagine my mother and father (step-father) in my case, in front of me.
I say (whatever word you use) God-universe-One self,
help me to forgive my mother, help me to forgive my father, help me to forgive me.
Then I say or think I forgive you mother, I forgive you father and I forgive myself.
I hope this can help someone. Peace
MB: There is no salvation for us physically or mentally.
JVS: Resolution and integration is through the emotional body.
Just listened to “The Greatest Challenge” MB You Tube video.
So encouraging, and comforting (believe it or not). Gotta remember to listen to it more often.
Had a death dream last night. Horror..seems to be the feeling. Couldn’t really get at it after waking up at 4:30 am. After reading my dream book for a while my mind wandered to the birth of a new grandson this coming September. Felt some grief about that… looking at my daughter in law in pain, worrying about the baby. I don’t do well at births, really triggers something.
Oh, now I’m kinda looking forward to the experience. A major trigger waiting for me. Maybe I’ll just sit in the parking lot of the hospital and digest whatever comes up. Should be interesting.
Nis: “The ‘I am’ is a thought, while awareness is not a thought; there is no I am aware in awareness.
It seems to me one of the main problems is the ‘belief’ that I am this body/mind. That I am this story, that I am this life. This false ‘belief is the cause of suffering.
It can’t be fixed with a new belief like- I am consciousness/awareness. That would just be another ‘belief’.
One thing is obvious. It is that I (whatever that is) am. I am and I am here. It is experienced. So what I can do is put effort into experiencing the experience of being me. Same as looking at me. Ramana says by doing this the problems and suffering caused by false ‘beliefs’ will gradually be healed. The cure to my problems and suffering is not to be found in old or new ‘beliefs’. I must go beyond ‘beliefs’.
Joy I watched the MB you tube video ‘The Greatest Challenge’ and I just did not agree with some of what Michael said.
For instance he described going through his anger as being very uncomfortable. He also described going through his grief as uncomfortable.
My experience of feeling and expressing my rage was wonderful. What a relief after holding in my anger for so many years. It was like feeling really sick and nauseated for so long and finally throwing it all up. I was letting all this poison out of me. It was great every time.
The same is true for feeling and expressing grief. I had’nt cried for 20 or so years. I would feel this enourmous sadness and cry on and off for hours. It was one of the best most healing experiences I ever felt.
The hard part was getting to the point of loosing control into the rage or grief. That was scary. But feeling it was so natural. The body wanted to get rid of this poison and it felt great when it finally did. I just feel I had a lot more to do and stopped too soon. I guess each one experiences what one needs to experience.
Larry-
I guess what you’re saying is that your experience is different than what Michael Brown described in his video.
But if you have a question regarding what you have been feeling and what he describes, I’d ask him.
When I was feeling my most intense grief, ( I was grieving all the sadness, loss and regret my body automatically cried, screamed and from some part deep inside or outside something said, this is wonderful. This feels wonderful. My body is doing what it needs to do. Tears were pouring down my face and that something inside or outside was saying “thankyou,thankyou.
When I was a child I was’nt allowed to feel or express anger. I had to be pushed into feeling my rage. When my body started releasing a lifetime of rage I felt incredible power. I saw myself destroying the whole world. I saw me killing my parents and my gut feeling was “I need this. This is right. This is good. At last—thankyou. I got to scream out what I had held in for years.
I believe others could and will have this type of feeling experience, especially once you (decide this is a good thing). This is what the body/mind needs. This was my experience and still is.
What is forgiveness, anyway?
Can we see through the veil on this?
Unforgivness must be some sort of energetic holding that says, “I am locking in a negative energetic charge that blocks, impedes or distorts the flow of energy in the field between us.”
“I am doing this as a punishment towards you, or a defense against you.” Or something.
Forgiveness then would be the intended release of that energetic holding or negative charge that an apparent “I” is holding against, towards or in relationship to an apparent “you.”
(Or that I can hold even in relationship to my apparent self – that is, “I forgive myself”.)
It’s interesting to think that we can do this, or undo this.
Especially if ‘I’ don’t exist and ‘you’ don’t exist.
Then who or what is holding or releasing who or what in relationship to who or what?
Or is forgiveness a thought-form?
JVS-
Yes, I like this.
JVS: maybe it depends on your vantage point?
I’m not much of a poet but i am a lyricist and songwriter. If you would like to hear a song I wrote go to the top bar under windows net explorer.
Type in http://www.somethingsoreal.com Then just press enter. I wrote 90% of the lyrics and 80% percent of the melody. Hope you enjoy. L
JVS: EMDR this too. The pain body, that is. The pain body, by the way, is one of Eckhart’s great insights. Anybody heard about the pain body before him?
I don’t know, when was The Presence Process written?
But yeah, your right I had never heard of it. Michael Brown, for me, came after ET.
That song works a lot better when you start with www
forget the http etc. It does’nt seem to work with http etc. I dont know why.
It seems on one level I dont exist and you dont exist. But then there is the other level where we do exist as seperate selves even if it’s a dream. Maybe both of these levels exist at the same time. On the level where we interact as seperate selves things like forgiveness and self forgiveness seem to help. A lot of things work or dont work in the dream.
It seems like the one set this dream reality up like that. Maybe to make it seem more real.
Yes, Larry I was thinking the same thing. That “forgivess” is ‘real’ depending on the vantage point, or what level you are looking at it from. This is why I like Francis Lucille. He makes clear distinctions when speaking. Otherwise, the conversation gets very confusing, at least for me.
I never heard of the pain body before ET but I could feel the pain in this body/mind. And I wanted to do something about it. So I decided to feel it. I felt that would somehow integrate it. And it did help relieve it. It does seem I was working with the wrong people so I quit but kept doing feeling work on my own. Once your open you can easily stay that way.
I’m going to be incommunicado for a few days. Talk to y’all Sat.
I dont have a question for MB and his experience of feeling his grief or anger. MB writes some of his students doing feeling work had a similar negative experience feeling their grief and anger.
I can only speak for myself and my cousin. We both got into it together. We both had similar experiences of feeling relief as the anger and grief poured out of our bodies. Sometimes when I was deeply into anger I felt extremely powerful and it was exhilarating. When I was deeply into grief my mouth would open so wide It seemed like in a way I was an infant. Ofcourse there is intense pain behind these feelings, but I was ok with that because what I was feeling was more real and natural then any thing else in my life. There is for many, a feeling of great relief while feeling and expressing these old painful feelings that one has unconsciously been carrying for years.
All I’m saying is dont assume how doing feeling work is going to be for you. If you have an intuitive feeling that you want to do it, then just do it. I wanted to work with a therapist or partner when I first started although some trust issues came up. Or if your more comfortable working alone than do that. Even though MB’s methods may be very good there are other feeling therapists whos books you can read i.e. John Bradshaw– Arthur Janoff– Virginia Satir and many others.
Joy, I hope you’re okay. Let us know how it turns out
The Power of Now was published in 1998 and The Presence Process much later. I am just wondering if any Indian teachers, or Budhist types used the term Pain-body.
Regarding, forgiveness. I was inartful when I went to there is not I or You, that sidetracked the inquiry.
Can we go deeper into what forgiveness is saying or meaning, even at the most identified level?
For example, is it saying, “I blame you for doing something to me but I no longer balme you.”? Or maybe, “I charge you with doing X to me, and even though you did X to me I no longer hold you responsible for doing X.” ?
Just not sure, what is it really saying. What is the beneath the surface implecation of forgiveness? j
I think as a child blaming someone for hurting me was natural or came naturally. I assumed everyone had free will and so if someone hurt me they ‘chose’ to do it. I no longer assume people have free will and thus cannot be blamed for their thoughts or actions.
But the more important reason I need to fogive others is for myself. In my case blaming my mother and getting revenge was to make myself unhappy. She had hurt me but still wanted me to be happy. My unhapiness was a form of revenge. If I can somehow forgive her (stop blaming her for her actions), I can stop being unhappy. Even if I can’t forgive her I can stop being unhappy because I understand exactly what and how it happened. What I was doing was for a long time unconscious so feeling work helped make it conscious. It being conscious is a major turning point.
I guess we need to forgive others and ourselves for ourselves. Knowing we and others are not responsible for our thoughts and actions makes it a lot easier for me to forgive others and myself.
I believe MB might disagree but I see free will as being an illusion. And seeing that helps me to stop blaming others and myself for whatever.
I think not forgiving has to do with feeling pain as in ‘you hurt me’. This hurt or pain turns into anger, blame and wanting revenge. It can be against someone or oneself.
Forgiveness means to accept the pain but get past the anger. Anger is a common way we first react to pain. Then the anger can turn into blame and the need for revenge. I think if one can really [feel the pain] which is hiding behind the anger, this will really help us to forgive. Also like I wrote earlier the realization that free will is an illusion will help one to stop blaming and thus to help one forgive. For some reason it’s difficult for me to be really clear on this issue.
I don’t concern myself with what MB would say because when you get down to it, he says it both ways depending on the situation. (my observation)
The free will thing is such a trap because wouldn’t forgiving another be exercising free will? I’m not sure free will matters, at this level. Except to say, that I agree your mother was not exercising free will/choice.
I’m still wondering what we mean when we say we ‘forgive.’ What does the word mean? The best I can come up with is: Forgive = beForGive. As in: “I ‘give’ you back who I knew you to be ‘beFore’ you did what you did.”
I think that if the feelings were resolved then ‘forgivness’ would be a natural result.
It may be an interative process, in which we use feelings to activate awareness of the issue to be forgiven, and then use mental forgiveness to then activate feelings, then to feel the feelings, and so on.
Regarding forgiving ourselves, I think there may be a need to forgive the self for believing that we were less than whole and complete at the time of the abuse; that is, for believing that we were in anyway responsible for the abuse that was done to the self as the child.
your meaning for forgiveness is as good as any I have ever heard.
I dont agree with saying forgiving would be exersising free will. You forgive so you can feel better just like you do anything to feel better like pulling your hand off a hot stove. If there is a reason we do or dont do something, I dont call that free will. The reason (in this case the pain) is the cause of the action or thought to forgive. Not our free will. If you look you see there is a reason for everything we do or dont do. That reason is not our will.
But believing free will is an illusion does help me to forgive. Now thats a mental level. The feeling level is feeling the pain hiding behind the anger.
The argument of whether human free will is a reality or an illusion has been and still is one of the most highly contested philisophical arguments of the past 200 years. Just look up free will and the illusion of free will on the internet. There are many philosophers arguing both ways so it is not a simple yes there is–or no there is’nt.
I guess I am what is called a determenist. So it’s not an argument that I believe we should have.
Read some of the artcles and arguments for and against. I find them very interesting.
This is something I read. It will be the last thing I have to say on the subject (for now).
While we may choose to do what we prefer
We cannot choose what we prefer to do.
The greatest gift given to human beings from the Universe is free will. But many times it does not seem so. Free will is the loneliest thing there is for a spiritual being; and we are, at the heart of the matter, at the heart of all matter, spirit being.
So we keep trying to give our will away in return for belonging. We give it to our parents, our friends, our lovers, our children, our career, our church, our country. We give ourselves out in carefully prioritized bits and pieces. And we take bits and pieces of others to fill the void we make when we give ourselves away. The exchange goes something like this, “I’ll be what you want if you love me.” For which, we expect an equitable return. “If you love me you’ll be what I want.”
And so we define ourselves by how we give ourselves away, mother, daughter, husband, sweetheart. When what we love leaves us, the love we felt goes with them. In the wake of its departure is a pain so profound that it erases who we think we are and leaves us alone and suffering in uncertainty. But we must find the courage to bear the suffering and the strength to sit with uncertainty. We must not rush to fill the emptiness with yet another vision of ourselves through someone else’s eyes.
For it is in those times when we are empty and lost that we may discover who we truly are. The breath of the Universe fills us, like a divine wind blown through a hollow flute. And we feel our unique expression of spirit, a vibration of light and color and sound, echoing off the walls of our heart. We become aware of our place in the music of the spheres, the symphony of All That Is. We align our free will with our universal soul and choose to reach out and embrace our time here through the part of ourselves that is timeless.
We come to find that we need no identity to be complete. We come to understand that love is not something we do; but something we are. We are profoundly grateful for all the experiences of our free will lifetimes that are specifically designed for us to become a fuller expression of the individual love that we embody on behalf of the whole.
And this love that we are swirls and dances from moment to moment splashing effortlessly onto everything around us. It sparkles in our eyes, flies from our fingertips and puddles in our footsteps so everywhere we go, we leave heaven behind, without thought or desire of an earthly return.
If my time here ends with nothing more to show than one radiantly glowing smudge on the sidewalk and that smudge does nothing more than whisper a single moment of eternity to an unknowing passerby, it will be enough for this “me” this “I” this spirit being to have existed. More than enough, for me. To be here, now.
Carol your words are beautiful to read.
What I dont understand is why dont you use your free will to to freely choose to enjoy being alone? Why not use your free will to enjoy not belonging? Why would you use your free will to suffer in uncertainty when what you love leaves you?
With your free will you could freely choose to feel bliss and peace for every moment of the rest of your physical life, whether you were alone or not.
Or maybe we mean something different, when we refer to the words (Free Will).
It seems obvious that this personal self, this story, this life is not who I am. There is too much ego involved-too much I’m right, which when I’m clear, does’nt matter. Maybe I’m wrong most or all of the time. This is not me. I’m tired of trying to be right. If it is true that I am not this, I’m ready to be what I am.
Hi, I was with family out of town for 3 days. (ouch)
I think if you “Asked the Guru” about forgiveness he might say:
Who needs to forgive or be forgiven?
Certainly not our True selves. Our egos would be forgiving their egos and vice-versa.
Or in other words, our story would just be forgiving their story. It seems kind of silly and unnecessary from that point of view.
A vision came to me, in the form of a funny line. If you were to travel to another planet, couldn’t you truthfully say,”Hi, I am Life, from the a planet I call Earth.” Indeed I life isn’t something we do or have, it’s what we ARE.
Anyhow, It really helped to change the perspective I was looking from. I kept viewing everything as something outside of myself, and not as myself reflected back to me.
To me, there isn’t a word to describe the “knowing” I get when I look at the blackness in between the stars. It seems that the knowing is of myself. I guess the words can only tell me where to look.
“Hi,I am life.”
My jaw literally dropped that was so good.
Right Joy,
From the highest point I can see from, there is nothing and no one to forgive. But from a different more feeling point of view we need to forgive because we blame. We hold others responsible for our pain and so we hold on to anger against others. If we can let go of that blame and anger, that is forgiveness.
If forgiveness is ‘me’ letting go of ‘my’ blame and anger, then why would I have to forgive ‘another’ to do that?
How is the ‘other’ involved?
Isn’t the ‘other’ just a mental story of who or what I’ve decided them to be?
It could be that ‘forgiveness’ is just creating another story, albeit a better one, about what doesn’t exist anyway.
The question is, “How can we let go of pain and anger, effectively?”
If forgiveness works then do that, and have the experience of that.
Becoming The Watcher, Focusing (Gendling), doing The Presence Process, EMDR, Meditation, are other ways.
Well, Thank God for the family member who pushed my buttons continually for 3 days because I was able to unearth some pretty juicy stuff. I was really, really angry. But to cut to the chase…
I think I was furious at my parents behavior as a child but I was unable to express it then (probably was a wise move) AND I was unable to get away from them as a child. (This really came up for me the last 3 days because I didn’t have my car and couldn’t run for my life.) LOL
I now see how their behavior affected my whole life and a lot of grief came up when I looked at how I hurt myself and others in my attempts at getting away from them (I left home at 15)
When I felt THAT grief,(how I hurt myself) then what happened was… I see the whole thing differently. I feel a lot of compassion for myself, it’s like I can see it from a completely different vantage point. But it doesn’t feel like forgiving myself. Nothing to forgive really.
Oh, and I’m thinking this isn’t the end of it. Still feel kinda angry, stay tuned.
“If there is a reason we do or dont do something, I dont call
that free will.”
This is saying logically: that just because we have a ‘reason’ for doing (or not doing) something, does ‘not’ mean that we are exercising free will.
Reason seems to be the key operative here.
Reason implies thought, choice and cause and effect.
Choice implies free will.
At what point does ‘desire’ turn into ‘will’?
The word ‘blame’ usually implies (another) whether that other is a mental creation or not. Holding that other responsible for our pain often causes us to feel anger toward that mentally created other i.e. not forgiving.
As you say what is important is to “let go of that pain and anger effectively” But when we do let go of that pain and anger (and blame), one of the results will be forgiveness of the ‘other’ (mentally created or not)
As far as free will goes I think I have said enough. I suggest go to [free will real or illusion] on the internet. Just write that out in the top bar where it now says wordpress and press enter. There are philosophers that can discuss and explain this subject a lot better and more clearly than I can.
I am more than willing to be wrong about everything I say. Larry
I just did a yahoo web search;
[Free will determinism versus agency]
For me it seems to get right to the point whether human free will is real or illusory. I think it’s a great read.
I thought of one more thing. It seems there is an assumption that [we] create reasons. Even if we falsely assume we are independent individual personal selves, we are not the creator of the reasons why we do or dont do this, that or the other.
Reasons are the causes that we take certain actions but we [do not] create those reasons. One could say those reasons or causes are created by the whole universe.
For instance we do not create a preference for vanilla icecream over other flavors. We do not create that (reason) to choose vanilla. The universe or everything creates that reason and every other reason. So it is not our will that is choosing. It is the will of the universe-the will of God. We dont even need this argument if we assume we do not exist as personal independent selves. For then, there is only the will of the one self. The will of God. I think it’s important to ask oneself; why is it so important for me to believe I have free will? Even though it seems we are choosing of our own free will, there also seems to be a great need to believe “I have free will.” Why?
I know I said I would’nt argue free will anymore but it seems in this forum I am weak. I did’nt choose to be weak.
Couldn’t determinism be just as illusory? I mean if you want to talk illusions…
Haven’t I heard you say on more than one occasion that everything is illusory?
Do you really think the Universe makes up the reasons why we do things?
That’s sort of like “The Devil made me do it”
Larry… come on….a preference is not a reason.
I think it is a progressive and cyclical understanding of the nature of life in the universe.
First: No purpose, as a child.
Second: Purpose – I must find it.
Third: Understanding – ‘Everything happens for a reason’
Fourth: There is no reason, therefore no purpose.
Back to First.
Yes, innocent, like a child.
There is a beautiful poem hidden between the lines of that rather analytical list.
Very nice jshafer.
Joy do you agree with the following;
“While we may choose to do what we prefer
We cannot choose what we prefer to do.”
We go about life choosing to do what we prefer. But what or who chooses what we prefer. Certainly not us. I did’nt choose to love this or hate that or like this and dislike that. So I say the universe or all of life chose it but maybe (chose) is the wrong word. But life or the universe did (come up with) me wanting this-loving that-hating this-disliking that. All i’m saying is ‘I’ did’nt choose all these things. Maybe your right. the universe did’nt choose them, but I did’nt choose them either.
Again I ask; Why is it so important-why does it mean so much for you to say and feel “I have free will?”
One person asked this question, “if you dont have free will why dont you kill yourself?” That should give you an idea of how important it is for some to feel they have free will. Is it that important to you?
The answer to that question is “because I was programmed to want to live. I was programmed to survive just like all sentient beings.
Larry,
…feel the peace that has just infiltrated this blog.
Namaste
Wow jvs,
I don’t know what you did with that last blog but it just cut through all the bullshit. Left me feeling at peace.
We are all really so innocent at our deepest “being.”
Namaste (really)
Also what seems strange is your acting as if there is a very obvious answer to the question of free will real or illusion. Yet if your major was philosophy you must know this topic is one of the most highly contested philisophical arguments of the past 100 years or longer. There is no simple answer yes or no. Look up (free will determinism versus agency) on the internet.
It’s not about being right or wrong about this or that. It seems there has to something beyond right or wrong and that something is beyond thought beyond the mind. Thats what I’m really looking for.
Larry,
Your right it is the most highly contested philosophical arguments of the past 100 years or more.
And I really have no interest in arguing it with anyone.
For me, in my life, I can see how the choices I made in my life were made because I would do anything to avoid feeling the grief I had inside. Give me someone to blame for my misery, please, that was my motto in a sentence. If I could blame someone else I didn’t have to look at myself and start repairing what was inside. And if blaming didn’t work, I’ll sedate myself. I can still remember what it would feel like to take a long draw of a Marlboro Light. “Push that anger down.”
For me, I think I didn’t “have a choice” as long as I was acting from that position. I was an addict. At that point I think I had no free will.
A couple of devastating breakups, physical limitations and just getting old I suppose and I was ready to take responsibility for my own happiness. I feel like I do have free will now (when I’m not being taken over by the pain-body)) I can say yes and no from a place other than manipulating a person or situation.
Is holding on to the “Free Will” position important to me? No. What’s important is that I feel like I have it. Finally.
Does that help?
Joy it’s wonderful to read something or experience something and have a blissful reaction. I just believe it is important to understand that because you are blissed out, it does’nt mean I am or anyone else is at the same time. It might be great if we could all feel the same bliss at the same time but it does’nt seem to work that way.
I just could’nt jump off one boat and on to another the same way you did. Anyway enjoy your bliss. Namaste
Perhaps because I was never on a boat to begin with.
If you believe you have free will now “finally’ and that is a positive experience then I say more power to you.
In my life I have both the experience of choosing to do things of my own free will and I often have the opposite experience of life living through me. I’s hard to explain what that feels like but it is a positive experience. It is like a feeling of surrendering to all that is. I’m glad that we are both finding what we need. Peace
After reading my posts today and many other days I understand what it means to say;
There is more truth in silence than there is in words.
ET: “It’s wonderful to watch how it works.”
JVS: I don’t thing just knowing about the pain body is enough but it is a good pointer towards where enquriy needs to take place
He does also say in “A New Earth” ” Not projecting the old emotion into situations means facing it directly within yourself. It may not be pleasant, but it won’t kill you. Your Presence is more than capable of containing it.”
It seems that understanding and believing in many of the spiritual concepts like oneness, non-duality, who or what I really am, the universe as an illusion may actually hinder my spiritual growth (whatever that is) and my happiness and peace. It feels like the mind is tricking me into believing the more I understand, know and believe the faster I’ll get to where I need to go. Or if I dont understand, know abd believe I’ll never get there.
So I try to learn, understand and believe concepts. Maybe it’s time to unlearn or forget all these concepts and do a practice that doesnt use the mind. A practice where not knowing, understanding or believing spiritual concepts actually helps.
Yes. I think that sometimes too. I’ve often thought that maybe someone (like an organic farmer perhaps) with no structured spiritual practice is much farther along than people like me. Not that I practice any one thing anyway, but I sure think about this non-dual/oneness stuff a lot.
When I was watching my grandkids this year, they put in a big organic garden in their backyard. I REALLY miss it. It felt so good to just water these “creatures” that then produced this food that you could eat. I found it so amazing. And over the weekend, when I would come back on a Monday, they would have doubled in size it seemed. I felt really connected to the earth.
The work I do is done on the computer, although it is amazing to me in it’s own way, it doesn’t grow food to nourish you. At best it is pretty removed from that process. (You could say I earn the money to go buy the seeds, etc, to make a garden) And that’s about all I have been making lately, seed money. LOL
I know in Christianity, a loss of faith is not considered a bad thing. In fact, it is really normal and people usually come back to a place that is even more spiritually fulfilling.
I think they are told to go…investigate those feelings. I think that is really good spiritual advice (as in non-dual) as well because you are then in acceptance of what IS right now.
Now, I’m going to go buy a couple of tomato plants.
Concepts are just thoughts, I guess the key is to remember they aren’t you.
But yes, oh so tricky, they are.
MB “All our stories are untrue.”
Michael Brown is really specific with words. He doesn’t say all our stories are an illusions, just that they are untrue.
P.S. I bought a tomato plant.
You know if you hang out with a tomato plant it could really quiet your mind, I think. Big lessons to learn from Mr. Tomato or rather Sri Tomato.
I got it home and my first thought was, Let’s see, when is it gonna have a tomato? LOL
A tomato plant just is, it isn’t worried about having a tomato, living or dying. It really is just in the present moment.
There is nothing to believe. Of course, that’s hard to believe.
Joy said:
“I think they are told to go…investigate those feelings. I think that is really good spiritual advice (as in non-dual) as well because you are then in acceptance of what IS right now.”
I wasn’t talking about the feelings of losing faith, I was talking about investigating the feelings of “this isn’t working” “I’m not getting anywhere” that seem to come up so often in the “non-dual” way. The same way as losing faith comes up in Christianity.
I can see how you might think that’s what I meant by my analogy of Christians losing faith, but it really wasn’t what I meant. I often expect the reader to know what’s in my head. Sorry.
hello all
i’ve really been enjoying the latest DN quotes and how they resonate & build upon each other.
BTW, i just read the latest question on MB’s website and its quite good – a reminder of what’s really happening now. His answer is, i feel/think, especially clear and precise. MB also has an interesting perspective of this world as a “way-station for dead people who have not yet processed their experience of living in time…” i hadn’t thought of life here quite like that before. Not sure if i completely agree but i do feelthink it’s true that most of what we feel, of what i feel, is very very very old — it just doesn’t look or seem like it. The old feelings so closely resemble and superimpose upon the present moment that it’s hard to discern the difference, for most if not all of the time.
i’m embarking upon the PP for the 3rd time…i only feel comfortable sharing this because i noticed (finally!) on page 7 that MB encourages having companions and support on this journey. For some reason i had interpreted him as teaching that doing it all alone was the only way to do it properly – that telling others about it was a way to get (false) validation from the outside, which is the same as staying stuck in your conditioning. (i vaguely remember someone also mentioning on this blog that MB wouldn’t ‘approve’ of this blog-of creating another group, etc, or maybe it was in reference to ET?)
In any case, reaching out is particularly terrifying for me anyway as it brings up lots of old painful stuff. So, thinking that MB wants me to ‘go it alone’ fits my patterns beautifully. i also realize that doing the PP or even being interested in nondual teachings is deeply embarrassing and uncomfortable for me on a certain level. i can feel it now as i write. like if i had my life together or achieved all my goals then i wouldn’t even be interested in all this crazy useless stuff. yep, i’ll have to investigate that more. no, i guess i’ll have to FEEL more. drats. ah well, yippee. i certainly don’t want to be dead forever.
namaste
~mf
Yes, I really love it that he speaks of the horror.
I really like:
“You must pass through us to know we are not real,”
When I was going through my most intense horror, I wasn’t sure if it was ever going to end or what I would end up being or if I would just disappear. It felt so completely uncharted. Michael Brown was really the only one who was talking about us being “warriors.” It helped.
I didn’t sleep much during that period, between listening to him on his radio station and writing on this blog I would listen to music. I listened to “Through the fire” by Chaka Khan as a love song to myself, repeatedly.
3 is a great number. And remember Larry and I are always here. LOL
FL: He can only live in harmony with others when there are no others.
JVS: I thought he was going to say, “When he can live in harmony with himself.”
Actually, I think he is saying there are no others, as such, only others in the form of the Self.
Yes, I laughed when I first read it. Yeah, if there aren’t any other people! But yes, if we see we are all one.
I noticed that people are talking about doing the PP sometimes 3,4, or more times. It must feel like their getting something out of it or they would’nt keep doing over and over.
So I went to MB’s site but I’m not sure how to get into doing the actual PP. I listened to 365 radio and I do understand and agree with what MB is talking about so could someone explain exactly how you get to the PP itself. I believe I should try it at least once. I know feeling work is something I believe in and agree with and know it has helped me although it was not exactly how Michael does it.
Hi Larry,
You follow the directions in his book, “The Presence Process”
He’s got it worked out day to day. The interesting thing to me is that the breathing is completely different then I would have imagined by reading the book. (He just put an audio of how the breathing is to be done on his website.) I just listened to it the other day and it was…wow..didn’t imagine it like that!
So that’s good, you will be able to get the breathing right.
I think I got mine at Bodhi Tree Bookstore, in W.LA not far from you. Probably cheaper online, however.
It consists of two breathing practices each day,then memorizing an activating statement and reading a few pages. It’s divided into 10- one week sessions. I think?
jshafer? Have you done it? Perhaps we should all follow mf’s lead?
Yes, I’ve done it twice. Once way I knew something was happening was by the amazing dreams I was having. (opps, didn’t mean to mention dre*ms.) I think it was helpful but I can’t say particularly what it did at this point.
I think to do it one would need The Presence Process book. Read the first part of the book and then read through the second part as you do the process.
Ah-ha! You have them too.
I did the breathing exercise last night, properly, and I gotta tell you… it was really amazing, the feeling of oxygen in my blood stream was really foreign. I’m a really shallow breather and also hold my breath a lot (unconsciously)
Really, really hard to get through though, ants in my pants bad.
It does feel like it clears the mind of thought.
OK onward, inward, upward or whatever he says.
ET: It is not uncommon for people to choose their partner through their pain-body, unconsciously of course.
They also say that that person you choose (from your pain body) is the one who can teach you the most about yourself. It’s sort of like Thank God for the men that abandoned me. I can now sit here by myself.
ET mentioned Hitler was a vegetarian. What is interesting is so was Albert Einstein. Pollitically speaking I would bet they did’nt have much else in common. A Jew hater and a Jew.
MB has a view of vegetarianism that you will like. It is kind of buried in some of his writings online. I forget where.
Thanks, I’m getting the PP Book so I can do it.
He eats therapists and spiritual teachers.
LOL really long and loud.
So he’s a carnivore.
Still laughing. But seriously, there’s so much truth in what Jordan said. MB sometimes cuts so clearly through what seems to be a misperception from another teacher.
MB: We immediately begin losing awareness, as if our perception of the world is shutting down and becoming distorted into selective tunnel vision.
JVS: Where’s the light?
Stay tuned.
ET: The alertness, the presence that is required to watch the pain body cannot be attained through effort.
JVS: This is a paradox.
My personal favorite is the pain body phone call.
My daughter-in-law calls me complaining about my son.
I’m going to start telling her that
“Her experience is 100% her responsibility” She may never call me again!
Oh and then I’ll realize perhaps, the same goes for me as she triggers my pain body. It really becomes this domino effect.
“My pain body is triggered..let me trigger yours and so on.”
It’s the shits, ain’t it?
The only time it’s not true is when Larry triggers my pain body, then it’s all about him.
j
You know you’ve done the Presence Process too many times when:
Instead of saying “you hurt my feelings” you say “you triggered my pain body.”
Every time someone says the word “realize” in a conversation you point to your own eyes and nod knowingly.
You tell your family not to bother you because you’re busy breathing.
Your car breaks down and your first thought is “Why the hell did I do that?”
You’ve ever said out loud “mirror, mirror on the wall, who’s the (fill in the blank) of them all?”
~ Carol
Very, very funny stuff you guys!
What is the source for the MB quotes about Death?
jshafer should know. He may have missed your blog but you can email him direct.
MB: Today and always really
I really love that he talks about the icky side of growing, changing and letting go in easy to understand language.
At the same time, I think the Universe or whatever you want to call it also rises to the occasion to assist you, in what ever form that may take. Which takes us back to ET “Your Presence is more than capable of containing it.”
It’s really wonderful combining all the wisdom of these teachers.
You know you’ve done the Presence Process too many times when:
Somebody tells you about a problem-person they are having and you call him/her their teacher.
LOL Probably the one I use the most.
I caught myself in a pain-body moment last night. It was quite funny how I felt so “right” so “justified” to be angry. I even had a little argument in my head between the anger and the part of me that was saying, this isn’t about them, it’s about you. I even said no… it’s really about them this time. I really felt the sensation that he talks about… the need to feed. I really wanted to be angry at the person. It is really a creepy feeling. Very vampirish.
Hi Joy,
Recently, i’ve been reading “The Art of Integration”, one of the free download books by MB on his PP website. There is a whole chapter about vampires! In the chapter MB describes EXACTLY what you are saying (or at least what i think you’re saying) you experienced. Specifically ‘emotional vampries’ and how it pretty much functions in the same manner regardless of whether people are doing it to us, we are doing it to others or doing it to ourselves (i.e. only in our heads). MB doesn’t use the term ‘pain-body’ of course, but he essentially describes the same process. However, he also gives a great and simple pointer about how to handle it as well. You might want to check it out if you’re interested (or not).
namaste
~mf
mf~
Thanks, I’ll check it out.
“This is what it is like to be confronted by death” –MB
How does MB know this?
Is it an intuition?
W
I think he’s talking about the “little” deaths we experience
“whenever we are triggered emotionally we are being asked to die consciously to something – we are being asked to die consciously to what we have unconsciously brought into this moment from our past, and to what we are unconsciously projecting from our past into our future.”
You kind of have to go back a few days to get what he is talking about.
thanks joy
you re right i am reading these sporadically
best
william
Hi, my name is Lisa and I just wanted to leave a note that I started reading The Presence Process last night and I am blown away by it’s simplicity, magnificence, truth, practical lessons, beauty and total immediate peace and joy. Wow! Wow! Wow! I was laughing at myself in several places thinking “oh, I’ll do this the way i want to do it” and “I don’t need to do the breathing exercises because I already am consciously awake.” LOL. Well. HAHA. Then Michael would address it saying exactly as if he read my mind. I did one 15-minute breathing exercise and my gratitude cannot be expressed!!!! Wow! This book is amazing!! This Process is amazing!! I commit to doing the entire process exactly as it is stated. It is my intention to allow blocks, obstacles and fear to be removed. It is my intention to see what I have kept hidden and buried. I am thrilled by what has happening to me in less than 24 hours! I usually don’t write in books, but I find myself underlining and putting boxes, stars, exclamation points and YES!” on every single page.
Thank you so much.
Love, Lisa
Nis: By seeing it as it is, and being sincerely sorry.
JVS: What does this mean?
It means taking 100% responsibility of our experience.
MB~ “whenever we are triggered emotionally we are being asked to die consciously to something – we are being asked to die consciously to what we have unconsciously brought into this moment from our past, and to what we are unconsciously projecting from our past into our future.”
If my anger is triggered and I don’t project into into the situation I am given a chance to kill consciously the old anger?
It puts the anger back where it belongs, inside us, to be digested alive instead of digesting the other person?
Character shaping I would say.
now I see how he gets this insight
Slow down the action
really look at what is happening
good stuff
thanks Joy
W
Nis: I am like a cinema screen – clear and empty.
JVS: I am like a cinema screen – full of drama.
OK this was the best laugh yet. Very funny.
MB: … our entire internal experience is just that: An unintegrated past experience being reflected outwardly upon the screen of the present moment.
JVS: This is amazing. What would there be if there were no unintegrated past experiences?
Well the only thing I can relate to is when you start to not see your partner or child as your mother or father or whoever, you actually get to enjoy then for who they are. I think we will still have our personalities. There will still be a lot to laugh at. Although I look at Nis I sometimes wonder.
MB: … our entire internal experience is just that: An unintegrated past experience being reflected outwardly upon the screen of the present moment.
JVS: This is amazing. What would there be if there were no unintegrated past experiences?
A lot of bloody good art!
i visited the Bradbury Building in downtown LA for the first time on Monday. It’s magnificent! It’s famous and has been in a lot of movies (bladerunner, etc). If you ever are in LA you must go see & experience it. It’s an occupied office building – people are lucky enough to get to work there!!
The way it is built and structured is truly an inspiring ‘integrated’ piece of architecture. sublime.
Art is a really interesting topic. Can’t imagine a world without art. It strives for perfection just like it knows that is what we are Truly.
I’m going to try and get to that building, I remember it from Bladerunner. Love that movie.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bradbury_Building
thanks cool place
Wm
Nis: I am a cinema screen, clear and empty.
I believe what Nis is pointing to is surrender, acceptance, detachment. My old attitude was if I can’t have this or get rid of that I could’nt or maybe would’nt be happy. Instead I would be miserable. I think a lot of people look at life this way.
That is why for me it has been so important to be able to surrender to whatever is appearing. I say to myself (whoever that is) not my will but thy will. Or let go and let God. I accept that you (the one self) know what I need while this character (me) really has no idea what I need.
MB: “Embracing the truth means admitting that our perception of the triggering event is unfounded, faulty inaccurate and that our subsequent behavior is unwarranted.” I agree
And yet it seems blame for most is one of our most cherished, favorite pastimes. We dont want to take responsibility which would seem like a blow to our egos so we blame another or others. Not realizing that we caused the other to hurt us etc. If we could somehow get to our hidden or unconscious reasons to somehow need to be hurt (which we probably picked as a child) we might be able to stop blaming another for hurting us and also stop blaming ourselves. After all we probably made this decision that we need to be hurt between 4 and 8 years old.
No, we didn’t make the decision to be hurt as a child. We made the decision to be a child; as a child, the child is innocent.
It could be said that the adults are doing their ‘duty’ of imprinting the child with the emotional signature. The emotional signature imprinted is exactly the one the child will need later as an adult. Why would the adult need that particular emotional signature? To wake up.
In this sense, adults are sacrificing their integrity and possibly their soul to imprint the child. They are acting out of their own conditioning and will pay the ultimate price – whatever that may be – for what they have done, depending, I suppose on how horrific the abuse.
There is no blame because there is no problem. j
“It is what it is”
I think this sounds like a blow off phrase. Like “get over it, it is what it is.”
I don’t mind “it is” like “it’s here now, in the present moment.”
Of course this could be my own material because the vet told me several years ago that my really special cat had a heart disease that he would die from within months and used the term “It is what it is.” I thought it seemed cold. Perhaps because she couldn’t fix him and I was really devastated. He ended up dying about a month later.
I found a new vet for my new cat. Still hate that phrase.
“It is what it is.”
i think its the “what” in the phrase that is suspect…what is what it is?
there is no need to be cold, reality can sometimes feel harsh enough. compassion is almost always appropriate.
my trigger is ‘get over it.’ i really hate it when people use that phrase. usually its consciously or unconsciously used to shut people up or/and down so whatever they are going through doesn’t have to be dealt with directly or even simply acknowledged. the phrase has no real meaning and comes across as passive aggressive b.s.
Getting ‘over’ it or just plain getting over is not a real option anyway, since it doesn’t resolve a damn thing. the only way out is through. feeling what you feel when you feel it – and that’s tough enough.
sorry about your cat, Joy.
Thanks mf… I suppose if we were to extrapolate jshafers comment to Larry (above) the vet was only reenacting her own imprinting. If she could have acted with more compassion she would have. There is no one to blame.
You know, I was holding on to a lot of anger about his death. Blaming the vet for his dying. In reality he had a terrible heart condition that he just could not have survived.
MB “The moment we admit this, the moment we speak the truth (internally or externally), the story dies, we are reborn into the moment and set free of the triggering illusion.”
Hey… it only took me 3 years to speak the truth on that one.
I actually do feel better right now.
Got to love this blog!
I agree; the child is innocent. I dont remember making a decision to be a child. I just discovered I was one. I do remember deciding to be unhappy, to feel bad and to make sure my mother knew it. It was the only way I was allowed to express my anger. I believe there is no one to blame because every adults (innocent) inner child is whos running their lives. The child is the father of man. It makes all or most of the emotional decisions. That is untill one does some deep feeling work and feels/expresses their legitimate pain.
I think a lot of my rebellious behavior as a teenager made my parents really unhappy but I think it was also a gift to them. One of those “Warning, open only if you’re ready” packages
I think our children are the closest we get to getting a perfect reflection of ourselves. Scary, very scary.
MB: Complete resistance leads us into finding a means to once again sedate and control the awareness of this surfacing illusion so that we may continue our life experience being unconscious about it.
JVS: When does football season start?
LOL Just the right amount of comic relief so we don’t go running for the hills.
Nis: Love says: ‘I am everything’, Wisdom says: ‘I am nothing’ Between the two my life flows.
JVS: I think Adyashanti quotes this line in one of his talks or books.
Which reminds me, I just finished reading “The Book on the taboo against knowing who you are.” by Alan Watts It was written in 1966 and at times I would be reading it and say, Hey, wait a minute doesn’t ET say that in “A New Earth.” I think these guys read so much stuff and then it just gets mixed up with what they are trying to say. There is definitely some Wittgenstein in “A New Earth” as well.
The fact is, none of this stuff is new. It’s been around for thousands of years. I guess the job of our modern Teachers is to make it understandable to us which I think ET does really nicely.
By the way, I highly recommend “The Book on the taboo against knowing who you are.”
I’m receiving this daily newsletter called NDhighlights. Number 3602 was the one i just read. Interesting stuff. I think one can order it by going to
I wrote something in but it did’nt print out but I remember it was offered through the Daily Now or Stillness Speaks. I like reading it every day. It’s cool stuff about non-duality.
Joy, sometimes it seems like every curse has a gift in it and every gift has a curse in it. I guess such is this life.
The way I got into non-duality was about 7 years ago. I noticed that everyone was sharing or had the exact same consciousness. This consciousness was appearing as many, many different circumstances, personalties different races, genders looks even species but all that stuff seemed superficial to me. I was taken by the sameness of all sentient beings. It felt like there was only one. Even the distance or space between us seemed like an illusion. I thought why does this one consciousness do this? Does it have to or does it want to? . Maybe it’s boredom. For us this reality or nonreality is full of sounds, sights, actions, feelings, thoughts, self consciousness. It’s like the city that never sleeps. And the one consciousness might experience silence, stillness. So maybe it’s bored. But I do experience this other quality within this consciousness that feels like the highest spiritual,or vibrational sense that I could ever experience. Nonjudgemental unconditional love. It somehow whispers or points to this beautiful quality and then I know it will all be ok-It is all wonderful. Namaste
John Sherman will be having his last meeting in Santa Monica tomorrow, Sunday untill the end of September. He is not having any meetings in August.
Sunday July 26th
Joslyn park
633 Kensington Road
Santa Monica, CA.
2.30PM
He asks people to arrive 5 to 10 minutes early.
The meeting is free unless you donate whatever.
Thanks Larry-
Unfortunately I will be unable to attend. See you in September.
MB: “Most of us presently involved in intimate relationships desperately hold onto stories about the past, stories written by our mental body, stories that are not true and have no place now.”
I went to San Diego for a few days and it was a place that in my last relationship we went a lot. Upon arriving I was surprised that there was a bit of sadness since the relationship ended over two years ago and we have remained friends. I was actually worried it might ruin the whole trip, but I stood there in Balboa Park and just felt the feeling and it didn’t kill me, it wasn’t even very sad, it was just a feeling that kind of filled my whole body, no tears, no words. It was just here in my body. I would periodically do it doing the trip and it became very pleasant, I think because at that moment I was really in the present. Not thinking about the past but just feeling what was presently going on in my body.
MB pic: Jesus is gone….but replaced by a very, very cute cat.
Joy, Thank you very much for writing about your experience of your trip and the memories triggered. As I read it, tears filled my eyes as I have some similar challenges now. Your generousity in sharing your experience candidly has made a difference for me and I want you to know that. I will practice what I have learned from you.
You’re welcome. I really had a wonderful three days. Everything began to feel new, not clouded by old stuff. Hard to explain really, but I’m glad you understood.
I love your sprocket icon!
Are you saying all mistakes can be traced back to the ego and that the ego is the original mistake, a case of mistaken identity.
FL: This is certainly true for all ethical mistakes.
John Sherman says: we first must settle the issue of identity.
I have heard this idea over and over from teachers of non-duality. We go around believing we are this person-this me-this individual-this seperate personal self-this EGO. I work toward getting to the point where it is KNOWN that I am not the ego or personal self.
I use Ramana’s self enquiry and John’s: Look deeply at who/what I think/feel I am. John says whenever you think of it, “look at the (youness) of you.” Just this ‘looking’ will do it.
At first I did’nt know how to do it. My attention is usually on anything but this experience of me. It’s turning the attention around 180% away from objects. Now it seems like a way to escape that negative voice in the mind or just detach from the world. In other words it has become something I want to do. I guess I could say it is how I meditate although I often do it while walking in the evening.
Once upon a time, there was a guy named Matt. He worked as a developer of video games until one day he decided he wanted to see the world. He used all his savings and managed to get to a bunch of places and to prove to his friends that he went to a bunch of places he took some video of himself standing in front of various monuments. His friends found this boring and said why don’t you do that stupid dance you do in all those places you visit? This turned out to be a very good idea.
After seeing the video, taken by his girlfriend, Melissa, of Matt dancing in lots of different places posted on the internet; the folks at Stride gum came to Matt and said “We like watching your stupid dance, we don’t want to mess with you; but, we would like to help you keep doing it.”
The song is called “Praan” which is based on a poem by Rabindranath Tagore from the Nobel prize-winning book “Gitanjali”. The poem goes like this:
“The same stream of life that runs through my veins night and day runs through the world and dances in rhythmic measures.
It is the same life that shoots in joy through the dust of the earth in numberless blades of grass and breaks into tumultuous waves of leaves and flowers.
It is the same life that is rocked in the ocean-cradle of birth and of death, in ebb and in flow.
I feel my limbs are made glorious by the touch of this world of life. And my pride is from the life-throb of ages dancing in my blood this moment.”
And this is Matt: